Fluff is one thing, but is there any other list that doesn't even have access to a re-roll? This is for a game after all, not a piece of fan fiction.
The Chaos Titans in Storm of Iron seemed to be following a plan (much better than the Imperial Titans aswell), even transporting the Chaos Marines to the walls rather than blowing stuff up (glorified taxis in that role - not really every Titan for itself).

E&C, I know you said that a Chaos Titan Legion was outside your perview but you sure do have a lot of ideas for it...  

I'm sure I've read elsewhere that MW and Ignore Cover is a no no aswell. It's a very powerful combo.

I'm not a fan of lowering the SR or Initiative (unless the Initiative could be related to the action taken by the Titan, eg +1 to Assault activation but then it gets complicated and things can get forgotten).

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So. No for no supreme commander. No for lower strategy and initiave. What would be drawbacks be then to compensate for extra options they have?

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As far as I'm aware, every other list has been able to be made playable and still have a re-roll available to it. Why should Chaos Titans be any different?

No for lower strategy and initiave.

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This list also won't have access to Ordinatus or Forge Knights presumably? That'd be other disadvantages / lack compared to AMTL.

I'd prefer Titan Tails to be an upgrade available to any Chaos Titan personally; they're often depicted on any sort of Chaos Titan and not just in the Titans of Khorne. It seems rather appropriate for a Slaaneshi Titan to have a tail between it's legs

Are there any AMTL weapons the background says were only invented after the Heresy and could be taken out from this list? And /or how about limiting some weapons which might feasibly be harder to maintain? - thinking possibly of some/all of the plasma based weapons. Also maybe remove the option to have one-shot titan missiles? Maybe the Dark Mechanicus would'nt have plentiful stocks of these.

I quite like the idea of having worse base initiative for the power's titans, but then giving them bonuses to certain actions appropriate to their power. This shouldn't  be hard to remember if you're only having a single power's titans in the list.

Some off the top of my head ideas and brainstorming thoughts (not necessarily balanced or a good idea, just throwing ideas around):

Could Tzeentch Titans have a Flames of Tzeentch upgrade (or whatever the Tzeentch only vehicle upgrade from W40k is/was called - I can't check because I'm not home) where the titan is covered with flames or mouths/whatevers emitting flames. Game terms something like +25ish points +1 CC attack with first strike.

Following this pattern for other powers Slaanesh could get some kind of Lure of Slaanesh upgrade, with alluring scents / disruptively loud noises distracting and affecting nearby a nearby unit / all units within 15cm and making them -1 to their initiative roll.

Nurgle could get Plague Wind / Miasma of Nurgle / Cloud of Flies giving a chance to put a blast marker on a nearby unit.

Khorne could possibly get an upgrade that made them even better in close combat, but if the titan fails it's action test it must charge and assault the nearest unit, friend or foe.

A worse Strategy Rating is not an idea that should be rejected out of hand.

Nor is a worse initiative rating (along with a small points discount off of the basic Titan hulls).



As Zombocom says, you don't want this list to be just 'AMTL but better'. The drawbacks must be significant.

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@Couchmonster - Heh, I was planning on working on the smaller elements of the Forge of Souls and the Dark Mechanicus later.

As of the moment, I've yet to find weapons to prune from the list with due reason - am at the moment thinking about it...as for the tail beeing generic, I hate to say it, but I've only ever seen the two Khornate titans be ascribed the tail - its possible of course, to give the Slaneeshi Titans a different tail thats more unique to their god, but I'd rather keep 'extra weapons mutations' to the god pools.

As for Miasma/Rune or Flame Covered/Haze/Khornate angryness for the Favoured Titans its not an unlikely upgrade concept - given that they are a considerable points cost to buy in the first place, I don't see such things beeing fielded with game-breaking levels power.

Anyway, flaws, to break it down for you:

Cost: The cheapest way for a Chaos Legion to get their hands on the weapons pool of a god and a Favoured Titan is for it to buy three reaver Titans (as noted above the upgrade is available 0-1 per every three Core Titan formations) so, 575x3 = 1725, then they have to shell out for the Favoured Upgrade which I'm thinking is worth around 100pts so...1825...which basically locks out Favoured Titans in a 2000pts game, meaning that the Chaos Titans have to sacrifice a certain level of flexibility if they want to acess the weapons of their gods.

Supreme Commander: Again, I like E&C's suggestion, yes, this meens that Chaos Legions are the only army in EA that doesn't have a re-roll - they might have a plan, but they're all in their own indepedent land warships and out for glory, they'll wreak havock, but they might not allways do what they're supposed to do.

Lower Initiative: I do like GlynC's suggestion that the differing Gods would alter the general initiative for the army, likely going from Tzeentch (with their ability to see the future) at the highest to Khorne with the lowest (representing the Titan beeing distracted by its mad rages) so the possibility for god-based initiative modifiers is there (which makes a nice tradeoff with the AMTL for having more toys from the 'favouring').

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Chaos Titan Legions: Khorne
Chaos Titan Legions: Nurgle

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Chaos Titan Legions: Khorne
Chaos Titan Legions: Nurgle

Well I'm apparently the only guy to make even a semi-balanced 'War Engines only' army list to date, so I figure it'd be wrong of me to withhold advice.


I'm sure I've read elsewhere that MW and Ignore Cover is a no no aswell. It's a very powerful combo.

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What other different units could this army have?

Defilers should be present
Lets have Land Raiders/Predators and Rhinos and for the Skitarii instead of Russes and Chimeras! Pre-Heresy the Rhinos were the standard transport for Imperial Guard and Ad-mech too and I could well see them still using and maintaining these elite vehicles.
Maybe Obliterators?
Harbringer Super-heavy Bomber??
Giant Chaos Spawn with weapons grafted on??

Could we maybe just have AA Defiler-variant and the Hell-aircraft be the lists AA, and remove the option for Carapace multi-lasers? Would be a different and distinct approach to the AMTL list.

If the Hellmouth has been changed in the Net-EA Black Legion list (has it?) then I think we should follow the stats for it here.

I still think making a Titan Tail Khorne only is the wrong way to do it - the Slaanesh Titan was just an example, I actually think Chaos Titan Tail should be a generic upgrade any Chaos Titan can take, whatever alignment it is or if it's undivided. Yes the Bane Lord comes with a Titan Tail, but there are also model parts for 4 other generic Chaos Titan Tails, there have been art and models of other titans having them and I see no particular reason why tails should be especially associated with Khorne rather than being a general Chaos Titan thing.

So far yes but so far I haven't seen much of alternative downsides. Note that it's not downside if chaos weapon X is 0-1 and cost +200 if rest is same as that's STILL AMTL except better. It has got more choices.

So if you have AMTL except with bunch of new weapons then whether they are underpriced or priced just right we have AMTL except better. Why would anybody play reqular AMTL then when they can use chaos titan legion list instead and have AMTL toys + bunch of new ones.

Of course one disadvantage could be simple price raise to basic titans(base warlord costing +25 or +50 instead without changes) but you might find that one hard to sell.

I'm not even convinced something like no ordinatus is really a drawback. For that to be drawback they would have to be something AMTL constantly use. What if AMTL doesn't field one? They might just as well swap for chaos AMTL list instead.

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Technically I think you'll find some of the earlier titan legions were balanced (the ones with 5 or 6 unit types in them).


Of yes, if you are going to have things other than war engines they should be limited to what was availible in 1st edition. I can give you a list with pics if you like

Could we maybe just have AA Defiler-variant and the Hell-aircraft be the lists AA, and remove the option for Carapace multi-lasers? Would be a different and distinct approach to the AMTL list.

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Note I'm not intrinsically opposed to 'AMTL + more choice' as long as it remains balanced through whatever means.

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I think you'll find that Skitarii in transports, Ordinatus and other such toys are not part of the AMTL list anyway - they're part of the Mechanicus list in the same document - just like this list will likely have a Dark Mechanicus infantry list bundled with it - so 'removing' them isn't really any sort of way to ballance this list

Like I've said though numerous times above, the effective cost to get acess to the more superior upgrades does alter how list construction works and changes the flexibility of the list - if we then add the ammendment of lower initiative or strategy rating and no supreme commander I think this list has been given a suitable level of drawbacks to legitimise its greater levels of selection.

As for the 'tails'....hmm...an Undivided Weapons Pool that all four allignments can choose from?

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Chaos Titan Legions: Khorne
Chaos Titan Legions: Nurgle

Right, the upgrade in question:

Favoured of Khorne/Nurgle/Tzeentch/Slaanesh (+100pts) 0-1 per +3 Core Titan Formations (so one with three Core Titans, two with six Core Titans ect.):
Inspiring
Icon (Summon D3 Demons of Patron God)
Weapons of the Dark Gods (all Titans may select from the Undivided Weapons Pool and that of their Patron God)
Jealousy (A Legion is limited to one patron God only, all Favoured Titans MUST choose the same patron as each other)

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Chaos Titan Legions: Khorne
Chaos Titan Legions: Nurgle

Simply having options at balanced cost isn't drawback. It's still AMTL+more choices which invalidates whole ATML list. Why would anybody field AMTL if they can have everything they have+more choices...In effect we would soon have loyalist titans with chaos gear.

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