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Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus

 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:57 am 
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Quote: (GlynG @ 29 Jun. 2009, 22:57 )

A Slaaneshi one should surely be a Pleasure Lord and not a Pain Lord? Slaanesh hates pain! It’s one of the reasons he doesn’t get on with Khorne.

No, Slaanesh don't hate pain. Pain is a feeling, a stong one.
And Slaanesh likes any kind of stong feeling.

Where Slaaneshi cultists can choose pain for themselves, Khornate cultists impose pain to others.

So Painlord, Pleasure Lord, Sin Lord ...

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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 12:59 am 
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Slaanesh sees pain and pleasure as essentially the same thing. There is no real difference between the two concepts to a true follower of Slaanesh.

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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:01 am 
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And Khorne isn't that into pain either. It's the killing he likes. A follower of Khorne will kill you and take your skull. A follower of Slaanesh will keep you alive and take your soul.





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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:01 am 
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Well, Khorne's fodness is for blood and death more so than pain...but sadism is a huge part of a Slaaneshi cult - regardless, as I'm moving towards a more modular system for dooing the Titans we shouldn't need to worry about what you call your configurations - as underneath it all its just a Traitor Titan with a nickname because of the changes a particular god has wreaked on it.

But please, save the fluff discussions for when I have a rules PDF to write the fluff into, for now, this is just for list development.




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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:30 am 
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Good onya for having a go at this British!  :agree:

One thing though, if there's no Supreme Commander, who decides where the Titan legion goes and fights?
I believe for gaming purposes, that an SC should be in the list (although I agree wholeheatedly that the idea of every titan for itself is cool).

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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:40 am 
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Quote: (Onyx @ 30 Jun. 2009, 01:30 )

Good onya for having a go at this British!  :agree:

One thing though, if there's no Supreme Commander, who decides where the Titan legion goes and fights?
I believe for gaming purposes, that an SC should be in the list (although I agree wholeheatedly that the idea of every titan for itself is cool).

Fluffwise, there may be a supreme commander Princeps, but once in battle it becomes every princeps for himself as befits an army made up exclusively of God Machines with an independent streak fifty miles wide (traitors).


So it's a cool piece of fluff, and also a balancing factor in the game to help compensate for the extra flexibility offered by the extra Chaos weapons.

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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:45 am 
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Every Titan might be out for itsself, but that doesn't stop them banding together with their former comrades - but the structure of the Legion has long compromised the need for a system of rank and instead works on a system of strength - the masters of the most powerful Titans of the Legion ultimatley dictate where the Legion will go, and are quick to deal with any challenges to their decisions - the nature of their Machines and the need to keep them moving more often than not puts them at the mercy of the Dark Mechanicus or the Traitor Legions most of the time and they likely have a similar relationship with the Hereteks and Traitors as their Loyalists to Mars - that is to say they ultimatley fall into a symbiosis with either the Dark Mechanicus or one of the Traitor Legions whereby they lend their strength to powerful Chaos Warlords/Dark Magos and recieve repairs, transport, equipment and necissary support.

Of course some of the Legions that fell in the heresy would likely still have a bulk of their assets intact, and as a result their relationships could be those of conquerors, uniting other followers of chaos under them, rather than cutting deals. Their Supreme Commanders are more likely the wills of their Daemonic Masters in this case, and therefor not present on the field.

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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 1:56 am 
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Tzeentch Weapons Options Concepts -

Tzeentch Scout/Battle Titan Weapons
Eye of Tzeentch – Just…Zap…
Warpfire Cannon – Multicoloured flames of death....

Tzeentch Battle Titan Weapons
Sorcerer Coven  (carapace module) – Essentially, a tower or platform from which the coven flings spells a-la Silver Towers, and possibly (as per E&C’s suggestion) boosts the power of the void shields.

Screamer/Fury Aerie (carapace module) – I’m a huge fan of Tzeentch especially the bird imagery, while Screamers are the aerial troops of Tzeentch, the way that Furies are statted in the Black Legion list with the idea of them having an ‘aerial assault’ to let them attack aerospace units does go with the imagery of a swarm of daemonic beasts emerging out of their perches on the back of the Titan – I’m thinking something in the region of six-ish stands of Furies.

Living Weapon – Something I think is important for a Tzeentch Titan, change, given how random and ever-changing Tzeentch is it’d have to be a variable stat/purpose weapon, this could be a per-battle roll for simplicity, but it should be able to offer good weaponry with the payback that it can’t allways be trusted to retain the same form, thus all its profiles would have to fit into a variety of rolls.

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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:41 am 
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Given that this list will have loads more options than the AMTL, what is the equivilent downside going to be?

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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:56 am 
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i was out this weekend but i thought about tjis very topic, thankfully someone got to it before me.

with me starting black legion and wanting to convert alot of titans, ill be watching this thread very closely.keep up the good work!


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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:08 am 
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@Zombocom: At the moment, no Supreme Commander, and access to the additional options requires a significant points investment (x3 Core Titan Formations + 'Favoured' Upgrade Cost) - and, as of my current thinking, you are limited to the weapons pool of one god - these are the intial aspects, if playtesting reveals any flaws/inballances then they will be smoothed out as appropriate.

Nurgle Weapons (not costed as of yet), credit goes to the Deathguard List for these, they may need some fine-tuning, but right now I'm gathering weapons ideas/stats.

Nurgle Scout/Battle Titan Weapons
Putrifier Cannon – x2 AP3+/AT6+, Ignore Cover, 60cm
One could mistake this filth-caked weapon for a pair of Earthshaker Cannons riveted together, but rather than shells this weapon hurls canisters filled with daemonic diseases and poisons into the midst of enemy units where they explode and wreak a tremendous toll on the enemy for months after a battle.

Plaguemaw – x2 MW3+, 30cm
Looking almost like a giant stone gargoyle bound to a Titans Weapons arm, the carved daemonic head of this weapon constantly dribbles highly acidic chemicals that spew forth to dissolve enemy units when the weapon fires.

Nurgle Battle Titan Weapons
Plague Mortar – 3+D3BP, Indirect, Disrupt, 60cm (carapace only)
On a par with the Imperial Medusa these cavernous howitzers toss huge canisters filled with a variety of daemonic poisons and diseases, whether by electronic signal or some sorcerous enchantment these canisters explode above their targets dispercing their noxious loads over whole formations of the enemy and causing huge disarray as whole swathes of enemy fall to disease and poison.

Stream of Vomit – Small Arms, Ignore Cover, Extra Attacks, Forwards-Arc, 15cm and AP3+/AT5+, Ignore Cover, Disrupt, Template
It hasn’t taken long for Imperial Commanders to fear the sight of an open-mawed Nurgle Titan with vats of chemicals mounted on its neck the  disgusting chemical matter they spew out can dissolve entire companies if they are unfortunate to be caught in the stream.

Plague Censer – Assault Weapons, Titan Killer (D6), Base Contact
Nurgle Titans are great monuments to their God, and in his jovial humour Nurgle has seen fit to create mockeries of the censers borne by Ecclesiarchy Priests  and graft them to his own greatest ‘priests’ – these flails seep with chemicals and let forth clouds of vile fumes – but Nurgle’s joke is not to be underestimated, for the momentum they gather as they swing is enough to cripple weaker Titans.




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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:59 am 
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Redid Khorne in the style above - one thing holding me back from making a PDF is I'm unsure of the best software.

Khorne Scout/Battle Titan Weapons:

Death Storm – 4x AP4+ / 4x AP5+, 45cm  +15pts
The Death Storm and the Vulcan Megabolter are not dissimilar weapons in the slightest, they are both rapid-fire expansions upon the ‘bolter’ technology, though the Death Storm has long been corrupted by Khorne and its ammunition is now of a far more daemonic origin.

Hellmouth – 3BP, Macro-Weapon, Ignores Cover, 30cm  +50pts
Fed with tanks of molten brass the Hellmouth earns its name from the gargoyle-like heads that almost always form their barrels and from the horrendous roar the weapon gives out as it spews super-heated metal at the Titans foes – melding their flesh and bones with the stream of metal as an offering to the Blood God

Khorne Battle Titan Weapons:

Havoc Missile Rack (uses two carapace slots) – 6x 2BP, Indirect, 60cm, Single Shot, Free
Khorne is a brutal god with little patience for stealth and skirmishing – the Havoc Rack is perhaps the best example of this expelling its entire payload in a roaring hail of high-yield missiles as the Titan charges into the midst of the enemy to claim blood and skulls for Khorne.

Battle Tail (0-1 per Titan, d/n occupy weapon slot) – AP4+/AT4+, 75cm, and Extra Attacks (1), Base Contact +10pts
It would be wrong to believe that Khorne’s brutality means that the creations of the god are blocky and rudimentary – in fact the articulated ‘tails’ of Khornate Titans are works of artisan mechanical mastery to rival the fluid motion of Eldar Titans, as they twist around spewing fire on units foolish enough to attempt to board the Titan and impaling war machines that get too close.

Doomburner – MW2+, Titan Killer (1), Ignores Cover, 45cm +25pts
The wild and heretical creations of the Dark Mechanicus are not to be underestimated, and when they are appropriately motivated by the minions of Khorne they have, at times, been spurred to greater levels of invention – the Doomburner is a varied design, sometimes in the ornate form of a brass gargoyle with an open-mouthed barrel or just a simple design these weapons work by focusing immense amounts of warp-energy to cause fiery explosions at a designated point – it is fortunate perhaps that it is only the brutal Titans of Khorne who have received these weapons, for in more sly hands one could render many larger defences quite useless.

Doomfist – 4x AP4+/AT4+, 30cm, and Extra Attacks +2, base contact, TK(D3) +25pts
Marrying an battery of melta-weapons to a Titan-scale close combat weapon the Doomfist is perhaps one of the best illustrations of Khornate mentality and perhaps the reason why it is easy to draw similarities between the Orks and the Blood Gods followers – the more destructive power a Titan can carry the better it can harvest blood and skulls for its Master, the close combat weapon on these is most commonly a razor-toothed chain-blade, however designs with ‘buzzsaws’ and other close combat weapons have been sighted.




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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:04 am 
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British: only having access to one god's upgrades is not a downside compared to AMTL. From what I've seen so far, this seems to be almost entirely AMTL + a load of extra options. I don't know why anyone would use the AMTL list if they could use this instead.

You need to build a major new weakness into the list to counter the bonuses it gets from being chaos, e.g. Chaos Space Marines lose ATSKNF.  

Perhaps lower Strategy Rating or initiative?

Also, I thought it was generally agreed that the hellmouth is losing macro weapon, as in the netERC Black Legion list? MW/ignore cover BP has long been considered too good.




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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 4:16 am 
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I think the lack of a Supreme Commander, upgrades dependent on a points investment, and limitation to one of four pools of only FIVE additional weapons from the AMTL list is a major standpoint difference between Chaos Legions and their Loyalist Counterpart.

As for the age old 'why would people play list X when list Y has extra options Z' argument...the main aim of this list is to create a Chaos Titan Legion list that is ballanced and playable for the sake of compeletion - if upgrades are costed right, a Loyalist Titan Legion will likely have greater numbers than a Traitor One in standard points matchups - but in the same vein the Chaos list needs to have the variety of non-Loyalist options that we know exist - as E&C suggested himself. I personally think that the above flaws are enough for now - but again, this is pre 1.0 list PDF brainstorming if 1.0 playtests against AMTL start showing that this list is vastly superior to its Loyalist equivilent then things will change.

In defence of maintaining the Hellmouth, the Black Legion titan costs are allot cheaper than the ones for this list given the modular nature - and at 50pts a pop its a pretty expensive weapon.




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 Post subject: Fallen Titan Legions/Dark Mechanicus
PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 9:06 am 
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I'll be following this thread with great interest as I've recently started work on a similar project for a chaos titan list.

I like that you're focussing on the Dark Mechanicum aspect, with mine I'm looking at the Forge of Souls for inspiration so Chaos Titans, Daemon Engines, Chaos Squats etc

I better get to work, keep it coming!


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