The Atlas is the ARV whereas Trojan is the general purpose support vehicle.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

O-man ... no matter what she's called ... I want some !!  And yes TRC ... the M113 is vulnerable from many evils ... The best armor is the front hull because the engine will stop most projectiles that penetrate, but then the M113 is immobile, and will probably catch on fire and/or explode.  The sides are flat so even heavy MG rounds will penetrate and bounce around inside the troop compartment. A very bad thing ...  Sometimes I'd have my company sandbag the front hulls and tops. As well as sandbag the floor inside the troop compartment ... We learned from 'Nam, in many cases, it was safer to ride on the top outside, then inside the troop hold. As the M113 was also vulnerable to mines & explosive booby traps ...     But generally speaking, the armor would stop almost all HE frags from FA and Mortars !    But I would not want to be inside if 152mm rounds landed withing 50 yards of the hull ...     But otherwise I was happy to command an M113 Mech Inf Co., and serve in two other Mech Bns ...    So I'm sure the Rhino suffers from similar "evils" ... In SM1, the Rhino got a -1 to it's Armor Rating to reflect this, I'm assuming ...    ( Sorry to hijack your thread O-man ... but ya know I luvs ya ! )

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Yes they have made it better But still its a bizzare army to try and use when the infantry are tougher than the transport!

I tell myself in my head that the Rhino is the air drop transport and they re-equip with Land Raiders as soon as the heavy transports land, but the fluff keeps on trying to make them look sillier.

Edit - And yes there are some wonderful stories of trucks full of dead sheep and similar during its testing!

A great one is one (yank equivalent of colour sergeant I think) chap hitting it with an RPG during a demonstration for various visiting brass, post introduction into service. Was told to use an RPG-2 or maybe an rpg 7 with a he round, but instead got his hands on the meanest rpg he could find (an rpg 16 maybe) and ensured teh M113 was loaded down with stuff that could go up and detonated the thing. No idea if its true but maybe he was sore about using it in Vietnam

Also features in a book where an IFV version is summoned into a fantasy land to fight a dragon! And I beleive later they storm hell.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Unfortunately ... the Rhino is the M113 of G/W Epic Sci-fi ...    The other Mech Cdrs always mentioned my Co. often dismounted ...    But again, I was a Rifle Plt Ldr in the 101 before I became a Mech Cdr ...    But I felt lucky to be in M113s when some units of the 10th MTN were attached to us ... Watching their dismounted patrols moving out into the cold, dark night ...     Been there ... did that ...  

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Sadly can't find the book,. I gave it away ages ago so don't have it at home either

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Yes, an RPG pretty much regardless of version would do a job on an M113.  Some M113 crews in 'Nam, would post engineer stakes and hang chicken wire fence from them in the front & sides of the M113. When they were in defense positions or were not going to move for awhile.  The did a similar thing with the Stryker in Iraq by welding what they called a "Turkey Cage" around the hull.  The RPG is a HEAT round, if the probe on the tip of the Warhead does not make solid contact, it won't detonate ... but you probably knew that ...  The "wire or cage" would prevent that by catching the slow moving round in the "mesh" ...

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

On the german wikipeadia entry of the M113 i read something about the driving behaviour f it. Seems to be a bitch if you want to break with it. And if it looses only one wheel it is notorious for loosing a track, flipping over and catching fire?

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

Well ... it is certainly like most Tracked AFVs, it can be a rough ride.  But a lot depends on the driver, as well. If you do a pivot steer too sharply especially going up hill you have a good chance of throwing a track.  The old M113s used gasoline not diesel, and they had a tendency to catch fire more easily.  Especially if hit in combat ... Fortunately all were Diesel by the time I got into Mech.  

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Urn submitted to PrintAPart. Consists of 3 pieces - chassis (compatible with gun enclosure), engineering module, and crane.

VERY NICE !!!!    Yeeeessss   !!!!    And based on our discussions here ... I've created a hybrid ARV (Armored Recovery Vehicle) & CEV (Combat Engineer Vehicle) on an extra SM2 Chimera hull. I'll move that subject to my own thread ... once I take pics ...   And as always ... I luv ya O-man ... But who doesn't !!  

_________________
Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

Did I say I would want about 12, silly me. Now that I have seen the final version I would want at lot more then that!! Looks awesome

_________________
There is no such thing as friendly fire, it is all bad!!

Hmm i guess i need one for each Saltshaker...

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

Well of course L4 I'm sure Otter will be doing a combat engineer vehicle next with a few flicks of his optimised for swimming digits!

Incidentally I went to the otter facility down in the south est before coming to India, funny 'little' fellows those otters. None though seem to ahve been allowed any sort of cad facilities, they must only do it in the wild.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

just to add to the M113 post: IDF is using tanks hull as an APC for the guys at the front (more like the stormlord) so the fighting man will get more protection and few of the front recovery vehicle are also getting armored versions - the latest one is the "namer" (tiger) APC which is mercava mark 4 MBT hull refitted

I thought that was a way to refit obselete tanks and uparmour the infantry cheaply rather than any sort of intentional strategy? Jordan does it as well and I think markets them.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x