Part of the problem for Epic is most/some of us got in when it was the Titan game. Then we got older and wanted combined arms. Now we are older still and want a balanced tactical system. The warlord seems to have fallen further out of favour with each iteration.
Maybe we should think up a titan herohammer version of Epic, back to 1st ed days, to lure in fellow GW gamers (just without the insistance on firing the seargants bolt pistol ).
Maybe FW's Titan game will do that, but I'm not particularily hopeful over their rules efforts.

(Note for anyone else out there who still plays AT - I'm always up for a game, though prefer the pre codex days where the warlords moved more slowly .)

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I must say I largely disagree.It's all a matter of degrees of course. And which armies you look at. The new Eldar scultps are really nice for example. Especially the Revenant and super heavies. Most of the infantry is pretty good to, even the plastics.

Space Marine stuff is good too, well the vehicles at least. The infantry is pretty poor. But if you do a good paint job, put chapter and tactical symbols on them they look much better, it really brings them out.

Convresely Imperial Guard stuff has been pretty lame, apart from vultures and valks. I guess that's why most folks went to Forgeworld (until now that is!)
Infantry is OK or so I would judge (for 6mm)

The ork stuff is not so great either. A Mixture of poor, ok and pretty good I would say.

I would agree that the epic range does need a bit of an overhaul though. Especially the infantry. in many cases it hasn't caught pace with the improved quality that the 28mm figs have had over recent years.

Won't happen though.

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I don't disagree, but really the key point is you mean "pretty good for 6mm" or "okay for 6mm"

Sure there are some amazing 6mm stuff, but it's still fiddly and largely unimpressive on the table. My forgeworld GK dreadnoughts are actually pretty nice if you pick them up and squint at them, but on the table they're little silver blobs, at least to me. There are exceptions, particularly WEs - I absolutely love the warlord model, its one of my favourite citadel miniatures - but they are certainly exceptions.

Still - again, I don't disagree this is pie-in-the-sky dreaming - at 10mm scale the game could be preserved exactly as it is (infantry could be on the same sized bases, the only change would be the increased size of vehicles and WEs, not an earth-shattering change). So there'd be virtually no change to gameplay for the "gamer's gamers" but the models would be so much nicer. Yeah, a 10mm scale warlord would be massive, but from a practical standpoint that'd be no obstacle - the 28mm valkyrie kit is simply huge.

Obviously its a matter of opinion - some people really actually seem to like the 6mm scale - but I would have been more attracted to Epic originally if the models had been more impressive. As it was, the only reason I got into this edition of Epic was because I found the original AMTL list online and a friend (mageboltrat, actually) was starting so I made myself an army of titans. Eventually I fell in love with the game and consequently I have plenty of 6mm infantry now but the scale put me off the game originally and only the titans actually pursuaded me to play the game.

So I think the OP is absolutely right and a 10mm version of the game would be far more attractive to new players. Naturally this would annoy the established community and require a vast amount of model support (i.e. plastic titans) but then this is a theoretical exercise anyway, right?

[quote="Lord Inquisitor,26 Jun. 2009, 17:56 "][/quote]
IMO no way epic should be moved to different scale. a) it would increase size same armies take up in board causing reduced army sizes(or alternatively more cramped battlefield=less tactical choices) b) it would cause price hike(one reason why I don't even THINK of touching flames of war is because of their ridiculous prices) and of course c) it would invalidate tons of armies. Hardly what would get more people play it.

What epic needs is more support and visibility. Plain and simple. Games don't grow when all they have is few players spreading the word of game that has a) outdated models(which are clearly different to 40k models and hardly what 6mm models could be) b) isn't even supported by the company producing it anymore and c) has outrageously overpriced models(11.75£ for single squiggoth? WTF? Or even for 5 bike stands? WTF?!?).

Give it more support, update some of the older models, provide higher visibility and make prices more reasonable. That would go long way of making Epic popular again.

But of course that would compete with 40k which is their cash cow. They don't want big battles to be played with Epic. Why sell 5x 40k army size armies for epic for fraction of the price if you can convince kids that what they REALLY need is 5x as many 40k models? More cash that way.

6mm models can look positively stunning. Just look at GHQ models. And don't just look at pics. Hold them in hands! I have bloody ton of modern russians(I have enough vechiles for I think tank division, mechanised division AND armoured division...Bit short of infantry!) and they are bloody _amazing_.

But then again that comes from company who has looong history in making 6mm models and doing them WELL. GW had very brief moment doing 6mm models and then they scrapped it in favour of their cash cows.

Oh and 6mm isn't popular mainly because of pure chance. You know why 28mm is so popular these days? Not because of their look. Not because of their price. Not because they are convinient or even reasonable for making believable battles. It's because of bloody model railways. First miniature models were made to match scale of those and has been stuck to it ever since. 15mm got in bit of popularity as cheaper alternative(though people failed to notice that 6mm(or 10mm at scretch) a) gives even BIGGER savings b) is even more believable scale if you want realistic ranges and armies that look like ARMIES and not bunch of skirmishers).

Those bloody railroads. Why couldn't they have been 15mm or even better 10mm scale? Or best yet 6mm?

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Umm, I suspect you will find that there are actually a whole host of railway scales, driven by a desire for 'truescale' representations.

'OO' guage (28mm or 1:76 scale) was the first widely available small scale raileway, surplanted by 'OO/HO' (25mm or 1:72 scale) which was introduced to make the railway models more affordable.

Then more recently 'N' guage (1:148) and 'Z' guage (1:200), which are pretty close to 15mm and 10mm respectively

Check out the other guages here

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Yeah. But which was the first ones? Yup. 28mm & 25mm. Which resulted in 25mm wargame models so they would be compatible with it(terrain). And then certain company with initials GW arrived and broke the bank. Miniature wargaming has been pretty much locked in 28mm(or rather 32mm these days) models after that.

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Well as I said, I like the Epic 6mm scale ...  And I try to put a good amount of detail on my Epic Infantry. Which does take more time, but IMO, I usually like the results ... And again, I'm fine with the scale and I too would never change.  Besides, I've got lots of Epic, DRM, E/W, etc. to paint !    

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Well iused to start modeling with 1:76 Matchbox soldiers and vehicles, then i moved (unconsciously, because i had no idea about different scales then) to 1:72. I knew about 1:35 but was to big for me to play big battles on my floor (hey i was between 10 and 15   ).
Railway models where a totally different matter for me.

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Well, 28mm may be the scale of choice for fantasy, but I believe 15mm is king in the historical arena, with smaller scales growing in popularity.

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Yup. 15mm was step away from 25/28mm to get larger armies cheaper. Too bad they didn't go full go and do 6mm though.

Though these days lots of "15mm" stuff is starting to be more like 20mm. Like 25mm grew first to 28mm and now could easily be called 32mm in some cases...

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6mm models can look positively stunning. Just look at GHQ models. And don't just look at pics. Hold them in hands!

Scibor has actually been known to recast GW components on occasion.

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A decent looking "Astro Trooper" is on my todo list, assuming the Astro Nun prints and casts well enough.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Intruiging, the 'dreamers' here muse on the benefits and stunning detail to be found in various ranges at 10mm and higher, while the poll on the other thread is overwhelmingly in favour of staying at 6mm. Still, as the entire debate is in 'cloud cuckoo land' I guess everyone is entitled to dream on

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Frakk'm !!  6mm RuleZ !!!!!!!!!!!!      

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