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What ruleset do you play to?
Original E:A rules 100%  100%  [ 3 ]
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What ruleset do you play to?

 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Tue May 12, 2009 11:44 pm 
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Apologies in advance for the long-winded message that follows... :))

Further to a discussion I've been following on TacComs about the original-EA-rules+errata ruleset vs the EA Handbook 2008, I thought I'd raise the question here as to what ruleset you all play to.

I'll admit to some early confusion about the differences between the two rulesets, which led to the occasional embarrassing moment when learning the game (about 6 months ago--I'm still a n00b).

Now that I understand the differences, and the fact that the official tournament ruleset is apparently the original-EA-rules+errata combo, my own preference for the EA Handbook 2008 seems to perhaps be misguided--particularly if EVERYONE ELSE is playing to the former.

So...any chance of a show of hands? If the general thinking is that the original-EA-rules+errata is preferable, I will stop promoting the Handbook to the new players I'm try to corrupt to the ways of Epic.

Looking forward to seeing what people think.  :))


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 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 2:30 am 
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I've been playing with Handbook, and seeing as most of the games I play are with friends I drag into it, that ruleset has been fine.  But, I too have been reading that lengthy discussion and feel I should just make the switch to the original w/ errata just for the slim chance that somewhere in Denver there will be an Epic tournament to play in.




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 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 3:15 am 
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Well myself and my group are playing with Handbook 08, but I would like to update the Handbook to comply with the EA and NetERC errata... just general laziness in getting that done, and in shifting people over who are in no hurry to shift... I support the idea of the EA rules plus errata, it's just not as user friendly at this stage.

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 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 4:19 am 
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Other: Core Rules, plus 2008 Errata, plus NetERC recommendations.

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 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:17 am 
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Arrrgghh! I hadn't thought of that as a poll option, but of course you're right.

Does the Compendium include the NetERA recommendations? I gather the Handbook does, but goes a step further again...am I right?


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 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:27 am 
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Quote: (GR00V3R @ 13 May 2009, 17:17 )

Does the Compendium include the NetERA recommendations? I gather the Handbook does, but goes a step further again...am I right?

Handbook includes the set of ERC recommendations from early 2008.
These are more expansive than the current NetERC ones, which are a cut back minimalist version.

I believe Hojyn has/is making the Compendium to reflect current NetERC, as is my intention with Handbook ultimately.

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 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:41 am 
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Quote: (GR00V3R @ 13 May 2009, 05:17 )

Arrrgghh! I hadn't thought of that as a poll option, but of course you're right.

Does the Compendium include the NetERA recommendations? I gather the Handbook does, but goes a step further again...am I right?

Nope, the Compendium is just the EA rules + official Errata. I wanted something 100% official to present to new players.

I'm not even aware of NetERC "official" recommendations for the rules... could somebody give a link to them?

EDIT: I will include the NetERC changes... as soon as they are "officially" released.





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 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 5:55 am 
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EA rules +errata +Epic UK changes

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 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:02 am 
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Till now we played with the Handbook. And it was perfect for starting the game, as it seemed to be one finished thing. We didnt used the lists in it, just the rules.

But I am rereading the rules again right now, this time the original rulebook with eratta. Based on the possible differences I might propose using that as ruleset in our club.

Its seems its just more appealing for newer players to read one tome that feels sufficient as to additional pages like eratta and stuff.

But since the errata will be in the official book soon I think there is nothing to hold us back from using it then.


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 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:03 am 
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Sorry for the rant, but... this is becoming a nightmare.

- EA official rules
- EA official rules + errata
- EA official rules + errata + NetERC recommandations
- EA official rules + errata + Epic UK changes
- EA official rules + errata + Epic FR changes
- Handbook 2008
- Handbook 2008 with Epic UK/Epic FR changes

And don't get me started on army lists: I've been trying to compile the different Space Marine lists (hardly the most controversial army)... to no avail, because each and every one has been developped separately and as a result none of them uses the same standards (different profiles different prices, etc.).

Are we still all playing the same game ?  :sad:





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 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:14 am 
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Just so it's clear, as far as the poll is concerned, all of those +NetERC Recommendations, +EpicUK and/or +EpicFR options fall under Other.  :))

But yes. It's far more confusing for the n00b that is preferable.

And then there's NetEPIC, which again muddies the waters for the would-be Epic player. Certainly, I was confused when trying to start with Epic, and one of the guys I most recently introduced to the game just this morning wrote to me asking "So what's NetEPIC?".

I'm definitely curious to see the final result of the poll. With luck, there will be a dominant option (even if it's Other, that will at least give an indication that further polling is necessary).


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 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 6:50 am 
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Hey everyone,

Was getting back into Epic again, and was using the handbook with the two other guys I play against for the last 4 games or so. This was purely because

a. we thought it was 'official'
b. we thought it had great ease of use, with everything in one document

None of us have played in a tournament before, though as that may be the plan in the future we will now change to the official rules plus errata. I have recently found a couple of other local guys who play epic though I have no idea what ruleset they use.

I didn't realise there were so many versions of the rules knocking about. I am getting confused as to what exactly is is available in what document and version. If Hojyn and Markconz finish their compendiums and handbooks, and they both include recommendations, what exactly will be the difference in the two documents? Are you both repeating each others work?

Would it be possible to push for one versions of rules, and one recommendations supplement:

1. A single, official, up to date tournament handbook, including all errata in document, and all playable races attached as appendices, or officially released supplements such as Raiders. This would form the basis for all tournaments. The tournament organisers could then specify races to be included in their tournament in the intro-pack, such as 'allowed races can be found in Appendices A, B, D, G...' whatever.

This would be agreed by all tournament organisers/army champs etc to be the 'International Standardised Official Ruleset for Tournaments' (long name :oo: , I like them  :p ). If everyone would agree to a regular timeline, and Jervis could be pinned to volunteer a little regular time each year, then something like this could work:
November each year, submit to Jervis to read:
ERC and net ERC people submit any suggested core rules changes
All army champs submit the most recent army lists
Any game test statistics, etc. also submitted
February following year:
Jervis replies on changes, discuss with committee members
April each year:
Release that years version of official complete handbook, for use in that years tournament season. If allowed have this as the 'official download' on the specialist games site, updated once a year.

Obviously this is very broad, and would require Jervis volunteering some spare time during, say, three months each year.

2. A regularly updated single supplementary report of netERC recommendations for core rules and each race, for playtesting. This report would use the handbook as the basis, and would be uploaded regularly, say every 4 months, with observations.

I believe we are making a rod for our own backs by apparently having different rules at each tournament, errata as separate documents, different versions of races, different recommendations, etc. I feel it makes the game look less professional, and the coordinated work to develop the game look less coordinated and more chaotic (and I'm an Eldar player  :p ).

As I haven't played against these two recently found guys yet I have no idea what rules they use, and this would be alleviated by a constant rulebook. Also, I intend emigrating to various countries in the next two years (China for about five years, before ending up in hopefully Canada). Again, I have no idea what rulesets are used in these countries (or even if Epic is played in China, oh please, oh please ...)

I will volunteer myself to produce any reports required for Jervis if the data is sent to me, or update the version of the handbook or netERC reports, if required. My thesis will be submitted by the end of June so I will have more free time to use my well-honed report writing skills.

Do we need a Supreme Commander to decide who (or team of people) will do what, rather than work being repeated in several countries? Everyone on the board is so helpful that multiple individuals are producing clouds of documents. Who is the current head of the ERC?

My 2p, sorry about the long post. Just trying to express the complete problem as I understand it.

Lookatmybiglongname


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 Post subject: What ruleset do you play to?
PostPosted: Wed May 13, 2009 7:10 am 
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lookatmybiglongname: While that would be lovely in theory, it's not going to happen. The NetERC was an attempt to do exactly that; create a standard for the continuing progress of Epic, but the UK and French tournament scenes decided they wanted nothing to do with it and went their own way. You can't force people to play by the same rules.

Your suggestions regarding Jervis will also never happen. Never, ever, ever. Epic support from GW is over, and not coming back; no rules reviews, no new models, nothing. The updated pdfs were sent to him a while back and aren't even on the site yet.

Sorry, but you're wildly overoptimistic about what's possible.




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