So thinking of getting some of these on the table... any voices of wisdom on these? Slowness seems to be an issue... also what models can you use for wildboyz if you don't have any of the really old models??

Was thinking of something like the following as a first 3K list? To add more Orkeosaurus mobs and maybe another steam gargant to bring up towards 5K.

350: 2 x Steam Gargant
475: 2 Nobz (Warlord and Weirdboy), 8 Boyz, 4 Grotz, Orkeosaurus.
300: 2 Nobz, 6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, 2 Squiggoths
325: 2 Nobz (1Weirdboy), 6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, 3 Squig Catapults.
325: 2 Nobz (1Weirdboy), 6 Boyz, 2 Grotz, 3 Squig Catapults.
250: 15 Boarboyz
250: 15 Boarboyz
275: 7 Junka Trucks, 6 Boyz, 1 Nobz (1 Weirdboy)
275: 7 Junka Trucks, 6 Boyz, 1 Nobz (1 Weirdboy)
165: 7 Madboyz (1 Weirdboy)

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In addition to overall low speed, the doggone army is ridiculously subject to difficult terrain.  Neither Squiggoths nor Orkeosauruses (Orkeosauri?  Orkeausaurs?) are walkers.  Every time I get on a feral kick it's been just long enough for me to forget and I am painfully reminded of it.

Barrage weapons can be nasty because of so much infantry and LV.

Steam Gargants are almost a must-have.  They are a good deal for the price and, more importantly, do a lot of things nothing else in the army can.

The stock core formation around these parts is a Warband (either normal or wildboyz), 3 squiggoths and a Wyrdboy on one of the Squiggoths.  It's 350 or 400 points depending on the warband loaded up, reasonably fast with extra transport capacity, semi-shooty.  They remain durable while loaded because the RA is so much better than the boyz' saves and because the high transport capacity is good against barrages (1 target instead of 4 or 5).  Orkeosaurus mounting works similarly, but you lose speed in exchange for the durability.  I think virtually all of our games with ferals have had 3-6 squiggoth warbands or more.

We've talked repeatedly about what would work with the horde-o-Orkeosauruses - Warband + Orkeosaurus + Wyrdboy x 5, but we've never tried it.

Junkas can be fun but if they get caught by the right opponent are death traps, e.g. arty.  It's best to think of them as "heavy buggies" and use them in the same way as a Kult of Speed rather than like a warband.

Obvious, but make sure any formation you add a Wyrdboy to has enough shooty units to soak suppression.

If you're going with footsloggers that can work in conjunction with them, Trappas look to be worth a shot.  They should be easy to model, too, just throw some extra terrain onto the basing for a boyz stand and you've got a Trappa.

==

I scratched and scraped to put together models I like for ferals.

For wildboyz models Kommandoes work, brandishing their hand axe and all.  I also had some of the old Wildboyz.  For the rest, I took apart the old sword and axe beastmen.  You can clip the shoota off above the boyz' hands and glue on the axe and the boy has a 2-handed axe.  Other blades would work the same - greenstuff, plasticard, or clipped from other models.  I glued the shields on wherever looked good - some on the front, some slung over the back, some on the left arm.  Again, shields are easily made from greenstuff or plasticard.  I mixed about 3 of the wildboyz/kommandoes/converts with 2 normal boyz.  You could also add some greenstuff "dunce hat" hoods like the SG models to designate wildboyz stands.  Those should be easy enough to model.

For Boarz, the Microworld Games 6mm boar riders are pretty good models.  They are a bit larger than the SG models, but not so much they look out of place next to each other.  I wish I'd had them when I was building my army.

Speaking of Microworld, you could mix in some of their Orks for Wildboyz as well.  The detail on them wasn't as good as the boar riders, though, so I'd go easy on them and just use a few for variety.  Their goblins would be good for feral grots.

The junkas aren't a bad price to buy but I stretched them as well because I like to convert.  I used the boar harnesses on scratchbuilt carts/chariots mounted with spare gunners (I had tons from turning buggies into trukks for my speed freeks).  I built other boar harnesses out of boarboyz.  For the few junka chassis I had leftover I made them into "stanley steamer" looking steam-powered versions by adding cow-catchers on the front and control panels from the back of spare trakta kannons (with all the levers and valve controls and such).  I got about 3 conversions for every 2 junka models.  I also threw in some of the old wyrdboy towers to use as Wyrdboyz added to a junka just because they fit (I don't think it's a particularly good mechanical choice) - a little beefier than most of the trukks, but rickety looking.

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Neal

Great analysis and modelling ideas Neal, thanks!

I'm used to Elephants having a rough time in difficult terrain in ancients so the orkeosaurus/squiggoth limitations didn't bother me hugely.

Trappas, I was a little surprised at the points cost given their abilites (eg compared with Stormboyz, which are in different list of course)?

Any thoughts on madboyz, I thought they looked like they might be useful for getting in the way, being hard to get rid of etc?

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I would certainly look at playing with 3 Steam Gargants. They should be your BTS and act as a great Blitz guard. However they suffer against armies which have Supa-Zzap guns / Volcano cannons, these can easily destroy your gargants.

I find the ferals a fun army to play with where you try an box in your opponent and then hit them with engagements.

I always use 11 madboyz, evens up the points and makes a great force for holding an objective or blocking up a Wraithgate, add in a minimum of 1 Weird Boy and you have some AA cover up the table.

Junkatrukks have been reined back as they were more powerful than Speed Freak mobz, but are still very useful for securing a flank.

I find that I have to retain a lot with Ferals to ensure that my formations have mutual support & don't be afraid to march.

One thing that I have noticed is that this army is not very good a pushing for tournament wins as an experienced opponent will play corner to corner against Ferals and try to spread things out. It is very difficult for them to get your Blitz / BTS (see above) but it is then very difficult to for the Ferals to win. I seem to have more tournament draws with this army than with any other.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

Tim:  How much do you think the lack of Walker hinders them in this regard?

I ask because we recently played a terrain-heavy scenario and about half way through the first turn we had the "Oh, yeah!" moment about nothing having Walker.  As a result, the ferals ended up diverted and channeled by the terrain.  They took huge hits from a single formation of Whirlwinds because of it.

It may not always be applicable, but it seems like the susceptibility to dangerous terrain can really put a hurt on them with respect to speed and maneuver.

Does the horde element make up for it enough?

Also, what do you think about the flavor?  It seems at bit off to me.  Maybe it's just my personal mental block, but I can't help thinking that feral orks should be good in dense terrain.

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Neal

The lack of walker is not a huge problem IMO and I wouldn't look to change it. Lack of speed for Orkeosaurus has always hampered me with my style of play, but large mobz garrisoned with Boarboy support allows for the orks to push up onto the enemy. Wildboyz also having a lack of FF creates a problem in that you are left relying on added units & nobz if you are engaged in a FF. Again I don't worry too much about this as I position Boarboyz to counter engage.

I plan to test more with a popcorn list and see if lots of small formations sacrificing themselves whilst others follow up is the way to go.

Mark - I often use standard boyz with no heavy weapons added to represent my wildboyz.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

It's funny that animals with four legs can't walk.

But I suppose that's the flipside of the vindicator... still, fluffwise.. are these Orkeosaurs solely creatures of the Veldt?

Thanks for the additional feedback guys, very interesting and useful. I'll get building...

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This is a reason why we have discussed a price drop for Wildboy formations.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

It was one of the things that Neal and I discussed. At the time I didn't feel that it was needed so it wasn't suggested. I'm starting to change my point of view now.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

At 2/25 for Wildboyz and 35 points for Nobz, the "extras" cost of the formation is 145 (6 wildboyz = 75, plus 2 nobz = 70).  In most of the ork formations the normal mob is close to the extras cost, with the appropriate discounts for Big/Uge.

That should be about right, assuming that the extras cost is accurate.

Personally, I'm thinking that the extras cost for the Wildboyz is a bit high.  Comparing 2 Wildboyz to a boy/grot for the same cost, the Wildboyz lose out in almost every way.  They only come out ahead in pure CC against a low-armor opponent, or for Mob Up count.  If you figure the Wildboyz should be about 20 points, then the mob cost should be around the 125/225/325 progression.

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Neal

Now played 7 games with Ferals, fun in slow kind of way... Makes it all the sweeter if your orkeosaurus actually gets into combat though. Agreed that wildboyz could do with being slightly cheaper. The comparison to normal warband is not favourable in most circumstances.

This list or similar is what I have been using and seems to work ok:
-3 Steam Gargants
-Warband, Orkeosaurus, Wyrdboy, Boyz
-Wildboyz, Orkeosaurus, Wyrdboy
-Warband, 2 Squiggoths
-Warband, 3 Catapults, Wyrdboy
-Warband, 3 Catapults, Wyrdboy
-Junka Brigade, Nobz, Wyrdboy
-Junka Brigade, Nobz, Wyrdboy
-Big Boarboyz Horde

As has been said Steam Gargants are crucial in ability to threaten/defend. Orkeosauruses slow, often out of action but pretty invulnerable transport, except to firefight, or critical stumble if into impassible terrain (like buildings = instant death!). Boarboyz seem to generate much fear. Still having enough stuff to capture and screen enemy blitz and another take and hold (preventing enemy contest) while defending own objectives is tricky and a 4th turn affair. Preventing enemy winnning easier though. Junka truks fabulously useful due to speed. Difficult terrain problems do seem a bit crazy sometimes - eg charging boarboyz into woods is dangerous!?


Some other 3K list ideas that I'm tempted to try out:

-3 Steam Gargants
-Warband, Orkeosaurus, Wyrdboy,
-Wildboyz, Orkeosaurus
-Wildboyz, Orkeosaurus
-Warband, 3 Catapults, Wyrdboy
-Warband, 3 Catapults, Wyrdboy
-Junka Brigade,
-Junka Brigade,
-Uge Boarboyz Horde
-Uge Boarboyz Horde

Orkeosaurus and Boar Horde...
-3 Steam Gargants
-Warband, Orkeosaurus, Wyrdboy
-Wildboyz, Orkeosaurus
-Wildboyz, Orkeosaurus
-Wildboyz, Orkeosaurus
-Wildboyz, Orkeosaurus
-Uge Boarboyz Horde
-Uge Boarboyz Horde
-Big Boarboyz Horde
-Boarboyz Horde


My full 5000 point list I have painted up...
-3 Steam Gargants
-Warband, Orkeosaurus, Wyrdboy, 2 x boyz
-Wildboyz, Orkeosaurus, Wyrdboy
-Wildboyz, Orkeosaurus, Wyrdboy
-Wildboyz, Orkeosaurus, Wyrdboy
-Wildboyz, Orkeosaurus, Wyrdboy
-Warband, 2 Squiggoths
-Warband, 3 Catapults, Wyrdboy, Nobz
-Warband, 3 Catapults, Wyrdboy, NObz
-Junka Brigade, Nobz, Wyrdboy
-Junka Brigade, Nobz, Wyrdboy
-Uge Boarboyz Horde
-Uge Boarboyz Horde
-Uge Boarboyz Horde
-12 Madboyz
-Warband (or upgrade all Wildboyz to Warbands)

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I'm going to sticky this thread. As with the SM tactics thread, if someone has the gumption to go through this and consolidate the discussion and tips into a single doc, it would be greatly appreciated.