since corey has squashed the idea of removing the variable SR how about we buff it from SR 1(3) to SR 2(3) so the choice of adding a c'tan isnt dead easy as SR 2 makes the army able to perform just as well without them. with SR 2 i accually want to take other things in my list other than a C'tan. and if i do take a harvester then i can only fit 1 pylon into the list.

speaking of AA i have no issues at all with the 90cm or the AA5+, but the TK(1) attack...will that be only to the AA shot? if so the choice of harvester engine in my list just got easy, orb for the win!

otherwise no real issues with the rest of the suggestions. Ill be playing a game tonight (thursday night) using 2 of the new monolith formations at 250pts each (proxying my bodyguard obelisk as the extra monoliths as i only have 2 normally), ill also take 1 pylon at 175pts but i need the above question answered about the ground shot TK before the game. dont think any of my opponents bother with aircraft so the ground shot matter to me.

ill throw in the orb so im not taking the c'tan, if you guys like my Idea of the SR 2(3) then ill play it as that rather than 1.

ill keep the armored phalanx as core formation and just take 1.

ill have the report up in 1-3 days with pics hopefully

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HiddenEvil - The Evil within
-EA Necron contributor

the TK1 was only for the AA. no one (thank god) has had a problem w/ the ground based attack.

2 of the new monolith formations at 250pts each

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

While there has been a complaint about it based on balance which I agree is not well-supported, there is also a valid complaint based on background which requires only the simple observations that 1) the Obelisk doesn't exist in 40K and 2) creating a low-level "line" unit has historically been off-limits to Epic development since the days of SM2.

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Neal

The balance issues with the Obelisk formation is of course only theoretical at the moment, but the background issues are certain, as Neal mentions.

i'll try to get a silly game in if I can find anyone willing to play against it...

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

Don't you still owe me a "normal" game battle report...  

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

I've not been able to get any necron games in recently, hence no battle report.

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

The background issue is a valid one but I wonder how many Epic armies suffer the same problem?  Most notably would be the Space Marines that can field just about anything as a 100% (Fill in the blank) Force.

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On a separate note I emailed Corey several times and he is aware of the situation.  Now that the boards are up more consistently I believe he'll show up soon.  It actually seems like there is a general consensus and the list of potential changes isn't terrible.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Well, Marines (well, perhaps also Chaos and Adeptus Mechanicus to a smaller degree) are unique in that they routinely deploy in forces of one company or less in strength. Down to that level, it's very hard to set any kind of hard restrictions because when your Imperial Guard or Tau force is just a grain of sand in the whole campaign and thus subject to the overarching organizational trends, your 2000-3000 points Marine list is more often than not simply all Marines they had on the planet.

In any case my opinion is that the force should be balanced around this loose structure, rather than just get blanket allowance to run amok with it. I'm led to believe (with no experience of my own) that Marines don't really work as spam lists however, with perhaps all Terminators and all Thunderhawks/Landing Craft being the closest to that.

/offtopic

It's a bit off topic but I was the victim of an all Bikes and Speeder army that packed a brutal punch.  Bump that up to 4000 or 5000 points and I am left wondering if a chapter would be able to field that many X units.
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Back on the Necrons though, I just want people to be clear: I personally don't like the Obelisk as a core formation but I also support the Army Champ's decisions.  The debate over whether or not it is appropriate could easily be sidestepped by a battery of playtests to check where it sits on the power curve.  So far nobody is willing to try.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I don't think the debate about the Obelisks being a core formation has *anything* with play balance and is almost purely a "flavour" things... playtesting is next to useless in such a situation.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Yes, and the Army Champ made a decision to put them in the core.  What do you do now?  He wants it in the core.

The original post by Zombocom was an argument against the potential overpowered nature of an all teleport fearless 5+ RA skimmer army.  IF you can show it is overpowered, the debate over its fluffiness is over.  The two issues combined make it a done deal for Corey to move it back to a support slot.

Also, I understand Corey's frustrations when it comes to this list where the theory-hammers swing wildly but the batreps are rare.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I hope it's not too late to comment, I wasn't aware that the forums were operational again. Which is great news, by the way.  

I'll comment on Zombocom's suggestions as I agree with most of them.

Fixed Strategy Rating: 2 (or possibly 1)

Of course the whole stategy rating thing could be looked at differently.

Rather than a "free boost", it could really be looked at as paying a price (as in reduced likelihood of winning the SR) for choosing not to take a C'tan OR a WARBARQUE (people seem to keep forgetting or choosing not to mention the Warbarque). By choosing to have a SR of 1, the Necron player should pay a price (in army flexibilty).

Maybe everything is costed with a C'tan in mind and not having one means we pay too much for everything else if there isn't one? (I don't have a problem with most of the costings as they are)

I have no problem with Corey's stance and trying to run a teleporting army with a SR of 2 is going to make them pointless. Even with a SR of 3 (the middle ground for Epic) the Necrons will only win roughly 50% (less against Chaos, Marines and Eldar, more against Guard) of Strategy rolls. Going with +2 means no point in Teleporting and that means no point in playing most of the Necron units.

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Just call me Steve.

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My Hobby site.

Hoyjn, you are not too late and your input is always appreciated.

Your point on the Abattoir is fine and perhaps I am being too stubborn by basing my opinion on my successes with the unit.  I find it to be a brutal killer.  But a 2DC change seems like quite a boost to me unless it had some sort nerf like taking away an extra attack.  Once again, playtesting and batreps would help.

As for the SR, Onyx's point is spot on.  The army has always been a SR3, so it isn't getting a +2 but rather taking a hit when they don't take the C'tan or Warbarque.  

I will have no time to play the Necrons between now and the Baltimore tournament except by Vassal, but anyone else is welcome to run with these potential changes until Corey returns.  I emailed him yesterday but I haven't heard from him since last week.  In the last correspondence we had, Corey mentioned he was very busy with work.

I am up for a Vassal game tonight to playtest the Necrons if anyone else is game.  We can use the proxy chart in the back of Raiders and use Space Marines.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.