Exodites were first introduced back in the early days of 1st edition epic, they herded dinosaurs with knight-suits and were similar to the imperial knights in many ways, but were included as allies for the normal Eldar in armylist terms.

Much later on models were designed (and very limitedly released) focusing on exodites as riding various sorts of dinosaurs (confusingly these were also referred to as 'knights' - namely exodite dragon knights). This is the exodites seen and expanded on in the 2nd edition eldar codex, Titan Legions and other places.

Some people seem to think the newer background replaces the previous background for the Exodites but I think this is unnecessary and harmful to them - there is nothing saying Exodites don't have both knight-suits and dinosaur-riding knights, each background just shows a different aspect of them and the best option is to combine the two - it's not like Exodites have very many models even with the two and there's no reason why they shouldn't co-exist.

Players from back in the day might be used to playing with Exodites in their knight-suit form alongside normal eldar, but not really familiar with the newer dragon-riding ones (the models for which are nearly impossible to get anyway) and so wrote seperate lists. It's inaccurate and misrepresentative to think that dinosaur Exodites don't have technology - the models clearly have laser lances, bright lances, massive laser cannons on the back of the stegadons, ect.

I've seen the Netepic lists and I'm really very unimpressed. Exodites deserve so much better than ripping-off concepts and units from warhammer with the 'wood elf war-dancers in space', alongside helpful bears and various coloured/types of fantasy dragons ala the old warhammer rules allowed. The Exodite's dragons are their dinosaurs, they shouldn't have fantasy dragons on top!

If people want to use the knight-suits perhaps someone could write a variant Eldar list which has particularly close ties to the Exodites and uses some knight-suits as a norm alongside a normal craftwold army? Background-wise craftworld X saved Exodite world Y from otherwise guaranteed destruction Z millennia ago and since then have been sharing military capability some / sending them troops as a thanks? Knight-suits could perhaps be maintained and stored on a craftworld much more so than having dinosaurs wandering about the place and potentially eating the native craftworlders, which they may very well not be happy to have. Therefore good reason for why just the knight-suits could be included in a Craftworld alt-list. I would think they would be better placed being a different alt-list than the eldar titan alt-list IMO, though perhaps they could go there.

Thanks for clearing that up

So really it sounds open-ended as to what can happen at this point, if army lists get created.

What I was thinking / hoping was for a craftworld variant that had Knight suits available to them, rather than a pure exodite list, but it sounds like it would be very easy to create multiple lists from the fluff we have.

It's because there isn't much in the way of official background for eldar knights. Nearly all of the fluff for the exodites (with their dragon riders and their using all parts of the buffalo, er, dinosaur) comes from the 40k 2nd Ed Eldar codex from 1994. Eldar knights predate that, appearing in a white dwarf article (scroll down a bit) (issue 126) from 1990. The problem for the knights is that, since that white dwarf article, they haven't show up again in any of the fluff. Exodites have appeared, in passing, but the amount of background material provided since the 2nd Ed Codex probably doesn't add up to half of what was in that book.

So that leaves us with 2 problems:
1) Eldar knights haven't been mentioned in the last 20 years
2) Exodites haven't been fleshed out in the last 15 years

That leaves us with a whole lot of room for interpretation.

BTW, those two link are straight copy+pastes of the WD and Codex texts.

Well, I don't have it with me to confirm, but...

It's in the background write-up for the War Walker in one of the 40k Codices. I believe it's the 2nd Ed codex, but it might be from the 3rd or 4th Ed Codices, or even in the 3rd Ed rulebook. If noone else can confirm that before I can, I will do so this evening.

So that leaves us with 2 problems:
1) Eldar knights haven't been mentioned in the last 20 years
2) Exodites haven't been fleshed out in the last 15 years

That leaves us with a whole lot of room for interpretation.

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There's nothing in the newer Exodite background which prevents them from having knight-suits or that even suggests they should not. Hypothetically if the new background had added in some drastic changes e.g. them not having technology but trading the few guns they had from the craftworlds, then yes in that scenario I could justifiably see the knight-suit background being ignored or considered separately, but that's not the case and I feel it is much better to conceive them together.

Having decided to bring out a range of newer dinosaur-riding models it seems natural for the background to focus on these, rather than the older ones, but we don't know what would have happened if they had have officially released them, knight suits could well have been given rules in the then SM/TL ruleset, or even if not they could have been mentioned in passing. We'll never know. Lastly, the background may be old but what exactly is the problem with it being old as such?

What you say is a problem, I see as a wonderful opportunity in making my own army; to be very creative and conceptualise and convert many new units, while also staying true to the look and feel of the how I feel they should be

It's not a problem for me. Heck, I can think of a couple of instances where I ignore recent fluff because I prefer the old fluff.

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Agreed, older fluff doesn't mean it's bad, and I also ignore some of the newer stuff sometimes.

Reading the piece on Eldar Knights, I can easily see them wielding craftworld tech. When I get ahold of more of them / convert more of them I could definately see myself running them in a variant list of some sort. Assuming I can make it not crazy powered, that is.

Well, it's a problem in that everything is so open for interpretation that anyone who has an interest in an exodite list (like myself and you guys) will probably have filled in some of the blanks (consciously or unconsciously). The odds that those blanks got filled in the same way across all of us is pretty slim. The most petty points can become big points of disagreement.

For instance, for parity, should the Exodite have access to spaceships? If so, what kind? I suggest using the Eldar corsair ships (since they are available and aren't used in any other list). It seems to me that they would have to have some sort of space defense, so I suggest that they would support/sponsor Corsair bands to provide protection in return for steady supplies and safe harbor. The alternatives would be for them to have either no spacecraft at all, or for them to use craftworld vessels.

As an aside, I feel really bad for the threadjacking that has occured here.

Thalaric just told me we can loiter here - I think he got the answers he was looking for.

Semaj- I understand that we may all have different ideas, but this is nothing new for any list.  I don't see anyone stepping up to take the Exodites and Eldar Knights as a champ (I don't have time for it, that's for sure).  Why don't you put together a list, throw it out, and watch it get picked apart by a bunch of people who have no interest in the list.  

Seriously though, the Exodite/Knight material has an opportunity to be re-done well.  E&C has -in a sense- revamped the Knight background for the IG and perhaps something that compliments that background would be in order.  Dinosaur herding might sound silly for the Imperium but if the Exodites use dinosaurs then it makes fine sense.

Or instead of saying Dinosaurs why not just talk about various alien creatures.  It is unlikely that all the Exodites across the galaxy would have the same type of mounted creature, but they could probably all be grouped into types of mounts: fast attack, armored, giant, flying, etc.  You might find Exodites riding on giant insects in some instances.  Or big snakes.  Or something totally strange looking.

Be creative but be prepared to have your ideas poked at.  I'll help you out where I can.

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It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

No no, they are all on dinos. You see, those animals aren't native to [all of] the maiden worlds, anymore than the Eldar are. They were brought along/cloned. At least that much is attributed to both the knights article and the 2nd Ed codex.

My rule is that regardless of everything else, leave the existing fluff as is. It's about the only common ground to start from. Now, I doubt I would care if someone modeled their own assorted beasties, but in the text, it should feature dragons.

You learn something new everyday.  Dinos it is, then!

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I definitely agree with you here Semajnollissor; Exodites are all about the dinosaurs and it's such a great iconic theme. Individuals may choose to model them with other assorted beasties, but I don't that should or needs to be reflected in the list, background or imagery - it would detract rather than helping.

I have already come up with masses of interesting new conversions and unit ideas for my own Exodites army, which I'm coming up with background for and was planning on sharing with the forum in a few months when they were more finalised and I had painted models to best illustrate them.

Personally I'm quite happy just to use my army under the standard Biel-tann list ruleswise. With epic's level of abstraction this can work fine and I don't have any pressing need to have to have new and realistically nowhere near as well playtested rules to use them with.

That said if people are really keen for there to be Exodites list and wanted me to I could maybe consider this and having a go at writing and posting one up for critique in a while, though it would be a while as I have many things to do in the shorter term. I should certainly have plenty of nicely converted and painted models for photos and a showcase section and I could make some step-by-step guides to convert at least some of the units.

Well we need somebody to write all this stuff out in a new way (read: not plagiarized from GW) so us uneducated folks don't mess around with the dinosaurs- or at the very least understand their history.  

I see a couple of posters rising to the top.  Come on, GlynG and semajnollissor, only you can prevent people like me from screwing it all up.  Start throwing something together for the community.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Can't stop thinking about Dino-Riders.....

I remember a short-story about some Exodites which where assaulted by a company of Dark Angels.
It featured Exodites riding on Deinonychus/Velociraptor style dinosaurs.
Basically the Dark Angels wanted a sword which they believ belonged to Lion El`Jonson but turned out to be the sword of Luther.

Anyone remember it too?

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