Alansa,

Good post, what I'm trying to say (only alot better )

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www.epic-uk.co.uk

EPIC UK - Improving and Enhancing Epic gaming in the UK

chairman@epic-uk.co.uk

Right, but as you can see, people outside of that group ARE concerned.

Can you not see how this is a major slap in the face for the hard work the netERC have put in?

If the lists used were the netERC ones with listed changes for these tournaments there wouldn't be such a problem. Seriously. Post the latest netERC lists on the site, along with a list of EPIC UK changes to those lists and the issue is largely removed.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I think what you are failing to understand is how this is making people feel.  You have army list development that you don't want to share with a community that THRIVES on sharing information.  And you plug that insider development on the very forum where that sharing takes place.

I'm not quite sure how your information could be helpful only to people in the UK tournament scene and not helpful to general development and everyone else.  As far as I know there isn't any genetic difference between us.  

So the non-EpicUK folk feel like you are boxing them out.  Ex. If I found out there was a Dark Eldar list within EpicUK that was different from my own, I would want to know what changes you made.  Heck, I might want to make those changes too!  But now you say,
"Oh no, you misunderstand, Bill.  These changes are just for our people, you need not concern yourselves with them."

"So, Matt, can I see them?"

"Uhm... No, sorry."  

"Come on!  I'm the army champ and I'd like to see what changes you made."

"Fine, here it is, but don't post it anywhere."

"Uh, Matt, why did you change the point cost on the Coterie?"

"Bill, this is exactly why I didn't want to send it to you.  It doesn't concern you..."

I'd be pretty ticked and that is the tone you've set with this endeavor.  Why you can't see that is pretty strange to me.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

I think they are concerned because they don't understand what it means. They thought it upturns the apple-cart. Attempts to walk all over everyone else's stuff, and disturb people's expectations. Not true! It only affects those max 30 people who go to  matts tournaments. It doesn't affect anyone else. If you're not a tournament goer then why be miffed? If you are one of those 30 and are miffed than take it up with matt.

Now

Those who have worked hard on making list that are satisfactory to tournament players may feel disappointedif matt doesn't use their work. I don't see why anyone should have stronger feelings than that though!
Certainly no one but EUK players have a right to make demands about what Matt does or doesn't use.

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So the union should only have been disapointed that the south decided to secede?

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

Matt made his post in the tournament section of this forum. You know, the place where tournament news is posted - not  any epic rules development sections.

Are you saying he should have posted?

Now I do think it's a little strange if Matt isn't agreeing to sharing requests. Perhaps he just feels he hasn't got the time? Primarily this affects EUK players - so these guys naturally come up tops in the pecking order for demands of information.

I dunno Matt, perhaps some kind of disclaimer on the Epic UK site and in your original post might have helped and kept the hoohaa down. Then again, I don't think it would have made any difference!

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I don't think that's a fair comparison.

Your trying to tell us how to feel?  You obviously have no wife or you would KNOW that is never a good path to go down.

It doesn't matter what the intentions are.  The results are people DO feel kicked to the side lines.  At this point it is up to Matt to decide if he wants to do something different to address people's feelings or if he wishes to ignore them.  

Personally I would be disappointed if the Dark Eldar or Necron lists were deemed unsuitable for tournament play, but I would be downright annoyed if somebody explicitly said they weren't going to tell me why.  That's just like talking behind somebody's back and IMO a person who does that lacks stones.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Our main concern is the fracturing of the Epic community, which, like it or not, this IS doing. It doesn't matter whether that was intended, it doesn't matter whether you think no EUK members should care, that is what is happening.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

The marine lists will be available at FSA and I imagine will be pretty widely distributed after that - the intention is to get them to a playtest stage via a selection of playing groups. When they reach that stage tournament players will see them and I'm sure have input

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NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

errm That analogy is way over exaggerated. There was a hell of lot more at stake in that case than here!

Ok me and my mates decide to use our own set of lists to play epic with. Why should anyone else care?

A new player comes along and wants to join in, but wants strictly orthodox rules. If does join the group then his say  means something. If he doesn't then his say doesn't mean much. Now, if a 100 such new players felt the same way, and refused to join for this reason, then perhaps my group would seriously reconsider.

This is the same thing but EUK is on a (bit of a) bigger scale.

I dunno, burn Matt just cause he thinks differently; burn him for being a heretic! Are you worried that his unorthodoxy will spread and threaten the church?

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The community is already fractured - tournament players in the UK want new lists and this is the best way to provide them.

I don't remember anybody screaming when the London group boycotted the tau list for their own version or basically shouted until their views were accepted as fact for the chaos lists.

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NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Alansa, I feel that you and Matthew are missing a very important point here - ALL lists are tournament lists. The whole point of lists is that they are designed for any game using the tournament scenario - whether that takes place at a UK tournament, GW's Baltimore Bunker, or on my dining room table in County Durham.

If you don't feel that Net:ERC lists are balanced, state why - help develop! You represent 30 or so competitive Epic players - that's a great development group. As Neal has already stated, your input was sought, and would be very useful to ongoing development.

But instead it seems to many of us here that you are choosing to set up your own lists, without consultation with this group - despite your website's own admission that it is the largest online collection of Epic gamers. This does not inspire me to attend any tournaments. This was to be the year my group was finally switching to Epic tournies; that's not likely to happen now.

Regards,
Reaver

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