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Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
Pettan
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 8:44 pm 
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Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth Works like this according to the Chaos army book version 5.1:

If a model in the Marked detachment is killed, immediately replace it with a Pink Horror. This replacement even occurs in Close Combat, but not if the Marked model is slain by a psychic effect or something that does not leave a corpse (such as a Vortex missile). Yes, this Pink Horror will split into two Blue Horrors as usual and no, the Marked model doesn’t count as truly destroyed (for Break Point calculations) until both Blue Horrors are destroyed.


My epic group have some questions about this...

If a model in the Marked detachment is killed, immediately replace it with a Pink Horror. Does this means that if a detachment has 8 hits against a 6 unit mob then 2 pink horrors are hit as well? Or can the next detachment that fires into the enemy detachment hit the pink horrors?

This replacement even occurs in Close Combat Does this mean that the pink horror has to be fought Instantly aswell by the unit(s) that killed the previous unit? And if they then win - to fight the blue horrors?

Yes, this Pink Horror will split into two Blue Horrors as usual and no, the Marked model doesn’t count as truly destroyed (for Break Point calculations) until both Blue Horrors are destroyed. - So a 6 unit bit detachment has to loose 12 blue horrors to be killed. Or do you have to kill everyone?

What happens if Trolls have the Mark of Tzeentch? My guess they become pinks if they fail their regen roll.

/P-man

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Warhead
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:19 pm 
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If a model in the Marked detachment is killed, immediately replace it with a Pink Horror. Does this means that if a detachment has 8 hits against a 6 unit mob then 2 pink horrors are hit as well? Or can the next detachment that fires into the enemy detachment hit the pink horrors?

The original six models were allocated these shots and so I would say that the resulting pink horrors may not be targeted as they were not the targets originally. Also it would kind of go against the purpose of the rule IMO.


What happens if Trolls have the Mark of Tzeentch? My guess they become pinks if they fail their regen roll.
Can this be done?!. I am so doing this if it can. Nice idea. Yes the rule states Killed not hit or Regenerating etc only killed models are replaced again IMO.

I'm unsure of the other questions but I do think I have something about it somewhere but I'll have to have a dig for it later so hopefully someone else will have a bash, so I don't need to find it.  :whistle:

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Pettan
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Mon Dec 15, 2008 10:55 pm 
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If a model in the Marked detachment is killed, immediately replace it with a Pink Horror. Does this means that if a detachment has 8 hits against a 6 unit mob then 2 pink horrors are hit as well? Or can the next detachment that fires into the enemy detachment hit the pink horrors?


The original six models were allocated these shots and so I would say that the resulting pink horrors may not be targeted as they were not the targets originally. Also it would kind of go against the purpose of the rule IMO.

I agree with ya Warhead. I do feel that another detachment should be allowed to shoot at the new pink ones. 10 trolls with the mark will become quite expensive.. Although they sure will have some staying power.  :D

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Warhead
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 12:16 am 
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I agree with ya Warhead. I do feel that another detachment should be allowed to shoot at the new pink ones. 10 trolls with the mark will become quite expensive.. Although they sure will have some staying power

Yeah, imagine dropping that little lot in someone's lap.  :vD  
I keep waiting for the other shoe to drop... probably when one of the other guys posts a reply telling us that it can't be done and why... but a Chaos Despot can dream, eh?

Point of interest. What does the cost total come out at? Yes, I could look it up but you have obviously done the work and I can't be bothered...   :whistle:  Hey, I'm lovable so of course you want to answer...  :tongue:

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zap123
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:32 am 
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I do love my Pink Horrors....I really need another 15 of the classics so I can make another detachment or two.  Trolls with a Mark is just sick......can't wait to pull it on somebody  :vD

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Pettan
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:04 am 
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But Zap, what happens in the close combat when the pinks start appearing?

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Warhead
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:29 am 
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Yeah, if a Pink Horrors is killed in close combat and instantly replaced by two Blue Horrors do you instantly fight a close combat (assuming the Blue Horrors are placed in close combat when they appear) as the same activation or do you fight as a separate activation or do you have to wait until next turn to fight or something else. I take it the same procedure is taken if the Marked Trolls are the ones killed initially too.

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Erik M
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:50 am 
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Not into netEpic but it sound as if the dead unit is replaced. Ie when the dust clears there's pink ones instead. Ready for the next phase.

Thus a unit with this mark will get to be killed down quite a lot and a minimum of three phases.
(Three phases if all original are killed in one go, then all pink in one go and then obliteration of the blue ones in the last phase.)

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Warhead
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:05 am 
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It's quite conceivable/inevitable to end up with a unit partly made up of Marked Trolls (In this case), Pink Horrors and Blue Horrors so I imagine it would get to be a bit of a mess.
I have enough models for three full Troll, Pink and Blue Horror Packs but haven't played 3 packs of Pink Horrors yet. Add Marked Trolls to the mix and Tzeentch would be laughing his ass off at all the confusion.

Exactly how does the Break Point go on these again? I can never get my numb mind around this one.

Marked units and Pink Horrors are replaced instantly when killed. They don't wait for the end phase to be produced. It's just when they are produced where do they appear and how do they act, if they are allowed to even act this turn that is.

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Erik M
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:16 am 
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Again not a netEpic player (yet!) but I'd say, "Don't think of them as pink/blue, just replace the fallen with them."

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zap123
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 3:17 pm 
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Quote: (Warhead @ 16 Dec. 2008, 10:05 )

It's quite conceivable/inevitable to end up with a unit partly made up of Marked Trolls (In this case), Pink Horrors and Blue Horrors so I imagine it would get to be a bit of a mess.
I have enough models for three full Troll, Pink and Blue Horror Packs but haven't played 3 packs of Pink Horrors yet. Add Marked Trolls to the mix and Tzeentch would be laughing his ass off at all the confusion.

Exactly how does the Break Point go on these again? I can never get my numb mind around this one.

Marked units and Pink Horrors are replaced instantly when killed. They don't wait for the end phase to be produced. It's just when they are produced where do they appear and how do they act, if they are allowed to even act this turn that is.

The break calculation changed for these guys.  In SM2 days you just had to kill 3 Pinks/Blues total and it was broken and gave up its' VPs.  Now you basically have to eliminate them 'til there is only 2 left on the field.  This makes them infinitly more fun for me and irritating for my opponents  :smile: .  Having 3 detachments might be pushing friendship boundaries though.... :whistle:

As to what hapens in CC:, you don't automatically fight another round (unless you have some special that would make you do so...Bloodthirster maybe?).  The Bluie just pops up and keeps you company until next CC round.

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Warhead
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 4:09 pm 
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Having 3 detachments might be pushing friendship boundaries though....  :whistle:  

Ah your just saying that cause you want to trade me for the extra Pack and don't think I don't know it Mister! :)) I quite fancy using Warmaster Horrors for Blue Horror stands and the old Epic Horrors for Pink only. Not so much two Blue for one Pink as two stands of blue for one Pink if you understand.

Wow, the rest of it sounds great and I can live with the other bit about Blue Horrors etc not instantly engaging their killer when created. It sounds fair enough so no problems. I wouldn't like to be facing that one either... if I ever told my Chaos Player that is... I'd wait until I got to use it against him first. Then I wouldn't need to tell him.  :tongue:

Now! All we need is some huge Tzeentch silver towery hovery skimmer thing that transports up to ten troops and Champion so I can dump this little lot on someone by turn two or three. Hmmmm.  :))  Question: Why are SILVER towers usually painted blue? I've been thinking of painting mine and just wanted to know.

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Pettan
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 5:01 pm 
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Point cost for the trolls would be.

250 for the trolls and another 25 for each stand. This would put it at 525 (cause of the Aspiring Champion in the troll detachment). You can lower that to 475 if you buy a Daemon Horde.


Exactly how does the Break Point go on these again? I can never get my numb mind around this one.

From rulebook:

Yes, this Pink Horror will split into two Blue Horrors as usual and no, the Marked model doesn’t count as truly destroyed (for Break Point calculations) until both Blue Horrors are destroyed.

So I guess you will have to kill 10 blue if they came from 5 trolls.
If you kill 14 blue and they came from 10 trolls then you are one blue from breaking the card.

As to what hapens in CC:, you don't automatically fight another round (unless you have some special that would make you do so...Bloodthirster maybe?).  The Bluie just pops up and keeps you company until next CC round.

I guess that the pink or blue that arrived are pinned automatically then if there is a unit to pin em.

The really crunchy question right now is... Can another unit shoot at newly arrived pink horrors?

//P-man




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Warhead
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 6:44 pm 
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Can another unit shoot at newly arrived pink horrors?


Say the Trolls with the mark are targeted by an enemy detachment. All shots on the Trolls will have to be declared as normal targeting rules. So if any new stands of Horrors arrive due to killed Trolls... ahh!.. I see... Yes, but of course. The Horror is only created when and only when the Troll dies. Which would be in the End Phase after it fails a Regenerate Roll. So no Horrors will be created until the end phase when the Troll dies. This is even better than I imagined. Pettan, this is one brilliantly sexy plan of Kick-ass gaming. I am so going to enjoy using this.  :))

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Pettan
 Post subject: Mark of Tzeentch: Flames of Rebirth - how to use?
PostPosted: Tue Dec 16, 2008 8:05 pm 
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Hehee.. Yes its nasty. The downside is that you cant really rely 100% on trolls. They are kinda stupid and if they advance when you want to charge the joke is on you :vD

Certain units are not noted for their intelligence and must receive direction from someone else. If
there is no one to give them orders, roll a D6: 1-2 the unit has Advance Orders, 3+ Charge Orders.


I should have asked the previous question abit different. Lets say that the troops that are marked with Mark of Tzeentch are cultists, marines or something else than regenerating troops and they die and become pink horrors. Can the next detachment that are about to shoot kill the pinks?

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