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[NetEA] Tyranids Month!

 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:11 am 
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The Tyranids on Hammans World where a splinter of Hive Fleet Kraken.

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:01 pm 
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I agree with Mephiton's comment that the core list needs to get nailed down before diverging into alternate lists.


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 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:12 pm 
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Shrug. As long as the special rules are kept up to date with the main lit I see no reason not to work on side lists. Pretty much every other race has multiple lists, and that is the way epic is intended to be.

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 5:45 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 07 Dec. 2008, 16:12 )

Shrug. As long as the special rules are kept up to date with the main lit I see no reason not to work on side lists. Pretty much every other race has multiple lists, and that is the way epic is intended to be.

Almost all "side lists" were developed after the "core" of each army was done, or nearly done; changes in special rules, stats, point values can all make a "side list" obsolete, despite play-testing.

Additionally, I *am* working on "side lists", I just don't want the focus on the "main list" diluted here, as it's more important to get it done, so I haven't released them publically.  Alternate lists can wait; a diffusion of the playtesting effort is the main reason for not running alternate lists at the same time

A "Leviathan" list can easily be "mocked up" using the current "Hammon's World" list, "Siege Carnifex" are Haruspex, "Bio-Cannon Carnifex" are Exocrine, "Malathropes" are Winged Hive Tyrants.  Until "real" stats are created, those are easy and appropriate "counts as" representations.

Organizationally, what would you see as "different" between a Leviathan-based list versus a Kraken-based one, Zombo?




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 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 8:52 pm 
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Well, may be one general 'Nids list and then maybe special lists for the other specific "known" Hive Fleets and Swarms ... :alien:

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 9:06 pm 
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Quote: (Legion 4 @ 07 Dec. 2008, 19:52 )

Well, may be one general 'Nids list and then maybe special lists for the other specific "known" Hive Fleets and Swarms ... :alien:

That's what's actually being worked on, though it's more a focus on "Phase" of attack, but Hivefleet comes into play as well.

I just believe that the "core" list should be the overwhelmingly main focus of development before "splintering".

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 10:57 pm 
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Certainly, the main list should be the main focus of effort, but if we don't look at varient lists in Nid month then we never will, no?

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:35 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 07 Dec. 2008, 21:57 )

Certainly, the main list should be the main focus of effort, but if we don't look at varient lists in Nid month then we never will, no?

Ah, that's a misunderstanding then.

The *point* of "Nid Month" is to get the "core" list nailed down as much as possible to allow for "acceptance" by the NetERC, and then other work can flow from it.

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:50 pm 
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So. What are the problems of the current list?

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 11:57 pm 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ 07 Dec. 2008, 22:50 )

So. What are the problems of the current list?

That's what *I'm* asking!   :laugh:

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 12:42 am 
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Well i still think that Trygons and Raveners should have some kind of tunneler ability and the Trygon should have Transport (1 unit of Termagants, Hormagaunts or Raveners) for this.
But then you can argue that this is already implemented via the spawning rules...

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 2:52 am 
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Quote: (BlackLegion @ 07 Dec. 2008, 23:42 )

Well i still think that Trygons and Raveners should have some kind of tunneler ability and the Trygon should have Transport (1 unit of Termagants, Hormagaunts or Raveners) for this.

One of Jervis's original "rules" for designing the Tyranids is "No ground transports"... so, no Bio-APCs of any kind.

The "infiltrator" special rule reflects the Ravener's ability to tunnel.  As to the Trygon, one of the variant lists I've got on the back-burner has a "Tunnelling Swarm" in it.  Giving the Trygon "infiltrator" makes for some, possibly, strange interactions between it and the War Engines rules, but it is a possibility.

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 Post subject: [NetEA] Tyranids Month!
PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:25 am 
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Hello. I find most revisions of the Tyranids so far to be good and quite like the 9.1 version. I have some small irks however, and since you asked for them:

Model/stats inconsistency:

Lictors are big, and have macro-weapon.
Carnifexes are even bigger, and have macro-weapon.
Trygons are huge, their claws are massive and.... no macro-weapon. Instead they have +2 attacks for a total of 4. Allegedly, this is good, but still somewhat disappointing.

I would not die if lictors lost it and trygons got it. Lictors still have about every other special rule anyway :p

Units:
I think the ranged Carnifex should be available. Since most Tyranid players have to deal with conversions anyhow, I do not think models from a shelved range should be a limit.

Rules:
I find that dealing with Suppression makes Tyranid even more one-dimensional. In Tyranid 8.x Tyranids could not be suppressed and therefore your Tyranid warriors and Tyrants could fire away. In 9.1, you almost always have blast markers, taking away the little shooting your  swarms may have.

Suppression in combination with a complete lack of shooting also make failed activations really bad, accomplishing nothing. Other armies can at least shoot if they fail. Perhaps Synapse Creatures should not suffer from suppression.

Another option would be to give Gargoyles and Termagaunts a 15cm range. Then they could at least fire away. Not being able to engage (failing the initiative test) gives you zero options.

My 2 cents,
Fredmans




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