I did the same, now mentioning WYSIWYG (which is sometimes about painting).

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"Your limbs are mighty. Let them smite the foes of our Emperor."

Seems like most of what I would want to say has been said by others. So I will limit myself to two areas:

Proxy Figures. I do not mind playing an entire army or a few figures that are proxies *IF* it is to allow someone to try out an army to see if they like it before they invest large amounts of cash to buy figures. So for one or two games you want to experiment, fine. If it becomes a habit then no, go buy the mini.

I also do not mind a proxy if it looks so close you can not tell the difference. For example, I have played against a person who uses demons from other games in his Chaos Demon army. But in these cases I should not have to ask over and over to know what they are.


Painted Figures. I have gotten into AT-43 because I can field 100% painted armies on day one and did not have to paint or pay someone to paint my figures. I dislike painting. I admire those who are good at it and seem to like it. Kudos to them. But wanting to paint and doing so should never be a requirement to enjoy playing war games with figures.

Lastly, for those who enjoy painting and seem to have the time to do so, think about charging a fee and helping others out. I have paid some of my friends to paint for me. A friends gave me a certificate for painting a unit for free as a Christmas gift a few years back. Those of us who hate painting love to do anything (well almost anything) for those who are willing to paint armies.  

Daniel

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"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
              - Cities of Death, page 59

Come fight me, if you dare...... http://dd-janks.mybrute.com

I like wargames.  ASL, Paths of Glory, Enemy at the Gates.  A Red Barricades campaign was the high point of my gaming career, followed closely by a Guderian's Blitzkrieg game and a Siege of Jerusalem game at Consimworld Expo.

Maps and counters have gotten so nice with inexpensive multi-color printing, to say nothing of the fact that counting hexes is much faster than measuring inches or centimeters.  

In short, I tend to think that miniatures need to justify their existence with an interesting paint job!

On the other hand, I'm used to seeing stats on the counter... so WYSIWIG is a little less important to me.

Interesting thread guys,

I hate painting and would for the most part not bother with it at all. Two things have driven me to paint my models over the years and that is to play in GW shops and tournaments.

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www.epic-uk.co.uk - home of the UK Epic tournament scene
NetEA NetERC Xenos Lists Chair
NetEA Ork + Feral Ork + Speed Freak Champion

1) I have no problems playing with or against unpainted armies. I would refuse to play someone just because he/she didn't have a completely painted army. Nor would I be likely to play against someone who insisted that my army had to be painted. For the most part I enjoy painting, but I'm slow and I don't have a ton of free time for it. I agree with pretty much everything frogbear said.

2) When the minis aren't being used. If they're being used, regardless of how much paint is on them, then they're an army. I would much rather use unpainted minis than not use them at all.

3)Insanity, OCD, collecting... take your pick!   My original purpose for wanting to collect something for all armies was to make it easier for friends to play, because they could borrow my minis. Over the years I've become more of collector, wanting to get things I don't have already, purely for the sake of owning them.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

1) Unpainted is fine for a one or two off, but if it stays unpainted week after week it gets a bit stale.

2) When it's based. Seriously, whether it's painted or not, going to the effort of gluing sand or whatever to the base transforms it from models into an army.

3) GW's drugs-industry style marketing and employment model?

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http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread

1) It always looks better when the army's painted.  It looks best when both are painted.  That said, there's very little that I consider completely painted in my collection.

2) An army is an army when it's painted and based.  Until then, it's a bunch of plastic/pewter guys on the table.  Sadly, I have a lot of guys on the table, very few painted armies.

3) OCD.  I swear, I'm a compulsive rules-collector, and I buy minis because I want to paint them (or use them for a RPG mini)

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"For the Lion and the Emperor!"

Even though I don't like to play with unpainted figures it's not becuase of any religious fervor or snobbishness.  I just prefer to play with my minis when they're painted.  I generally won't play with figures unless I've at least primed them and they're actively being painted.  That being said, I look to my games for entertainment.  I find the entertainment from playing the game and figuring out the counter to my opponent's tactics, the painting is a nice second as far as I'm concerned.  In the end, it's still only a game with fancy game piece whether they are painted or not.  As far as I'm concerned, my opponent bought his miniatures with his (or her) money, he can do (or not do) whatever he pleases with them.  So I'll gladly play against an unpainted army.  When I won't play with a person is when I know them to be poor sportsmen.  That kills the game for me more than anything else.

Figures become an army when they are grouped in meaningful ways in order to support the tactics chosen by the designer of that force.  Notice that this has absolutely nothing to do with painting.  Though they do look much cooler when painted, especially in a cohesive theme.

I call it "Shiney Object Syndrome."  Though if plastics become more prevalent I may need to find a new name for it.

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My blog

20+ years ago when I started miniature wargaming our group had a house rule that no miniature was fielded unless it was completely painted, to include basing!  There were about a dozen of us and those guys were all 'Eavy Metal quality painters, my stuff looked like finger paints next to theirs!  I still field fully painted armies for whatever game I play and I wish more people would also.  I'm married, have kids (including a new baby), house to take care of (even recovering from Hurricane Ike damage), and work anywhere from 50 to 80 hours a week.  Now if I can find time to paint some miniatures, so can you!

get to work ya' lazy gitz!  

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Nice to see so many different views on the subject!

I must say I'm surprised to see how many actually have a "policy" on the subject.  

Another thing too - I play a lot of historical wargaming and in that miljoeu "unpainted" is almost "unknown". I wonder why there's a difference?! I've speculated that the influx of new troops we see in science fiction / fantasy games, may hold some of the answer.

Take Privateer Press for instance every other motnh or so new troops arrive and if you wanna keep up you gotta field those or at least look at them in some way.

But then again this theory can't really relate to Epic.. as not much new is coming out from GW modelwise.

And to the poster who disliked my "cardboard" comments - just because my gaming group has a set of unwritten rules, doesn't mean I want to change the world. You're entirely entitled to have your opinion.. in my opinion!!  

I play in a fairly closed circle (almost) and unwritten rules are less of a problem that way and everybody's cool with it.

Outside this "closed" circle I play against unpainted a lot.. it's the standard I'd say. At a Warmachine tournement or fantasy tournement I'd expect at least 50% unpainted.

The local club recently held a necromunda campaign - lot's of unpainted minis.. but a rule saying "your gang is -1 LD if it contains unpainted lead". Again another take on it, but no biggy as everybody was cool with it.

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If you suddenly find that I make any sense.... look out of your window for armageddon!

Are people still listening to that? frightful...!

I wouldn't say that i'm at all snobbish about painting; I'd never to refuse to play someone with an unpainted army unless it stays that way for months (or they're the guy below...).

The thread's bringing up some interesting points.  Sergeant Crunch mentioned sportsmanship and I must say that sometimes i find the worst case of extreme amounts of proxying are from poor sports; take -for example-, back in the day's when i played "SpaceMarine 40k", a guy who said he wanted to play with his 'Deathwing' Army; "cool!" though i...only to see him plop down about 30 different terminators, in many states of disrepair, with power swords as assault cannons! Bah!  

For me though in the end it's all about having a laugh with mates; niceley painted armies just makes it feel like i've invested a bit more in it. I see my collections as more of a craft than just a bunch of plastic and metal that i've spend silly amounts of money on...usually i live by growing vegetables in the back garden and being a spendthrift!

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MoK's Painting Blog
Now Showing:
Mok's Modular Modern Messy Guard Army

You think that's bad?! I faced toilet roll tubes with cocktail sticks inserted instead of 40K Ork Tinbotz, with Gork-only knows what the weapons were..... not to mention a mass of clone orks purportedly armed with a mind-boggling variety of heavy weapons which were all cleverly disguised as close combat weapons.

As for policy - I only apply it to me: all fielded models must be painted ad wisywig; but I'm ok with whatever is thrown against me (I still always lose, anyway), although the above example admittedly tried my patience...  

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Back from oblivion (again)?

That would be me  

I have a problem with people telling me that I can't do something I guess.

Cheers.....

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Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Yeah I get that totally. But the point is actually that noone is telling you what to do - everybody's just flashing their own preferences  

If people started to advocate their own views aggressively it would be a real bugger!

Imagine going to a tourney and seeing people yell over unpainted minis - don't think that'll happen!

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If you suddenly find that I make any sense.... look out of your window for armageddon!