Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 287 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 20  Next

Aspect: Tau Units

 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:38 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Marines have no TK at all unless they take their own warlord titan, yet they seem to manage alright

Yep understood, but the point is they can take a Warlord etc for TK ability. The Moray fills that spot for Tau - the reason it's in the list IMO. E&C rails against it but it's pretty much a necessity unless you take the current Manta(850 points). Like I said, try fighting against AMTL without dedicated Titan killer units. You can only do so much with AT fire and you also have to kill other formations to win a game. Having to dedicate 5-6 formations to kill 1 titan is a bit much so if you have to kill multiple titans it gets OTT.

What I read seemed to be that people were proposing removal of Tau TK by-and-large. If this isn't on the table then no worries.  :agree:

Why wouldn't they both be bombers?
For one, killability. SMLC is 4DC and, like Hena mentioned, have you ever seen one go down to anything other than a crit? I've not. A 5DC aircraft(with a possible shield too??) seems a bit whiffy to me. You may not like Support Craft (in whichever format of rule) but they are definitely a fluffy Tau thing IMO as they add something different to the game.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:09 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
Quote: (Dobbsy @ 27 Oct. 2008, 04:38 )

Marines have no TK at all unless they take their own warlord titan, yet they seem to manage alright

Yep understood, but the point is they can take a Warlord etc for TK ability. The Moray fills that spot for Tau - the reason it's in the list IMO. E&C rails against it but it's pretty much a necessity unless you take the current Manta(850 points).

Yep, the Manta's 850 points for 2xTK(d3) shots, whereas marines pay 850 points for one TK(d3) shot.

Even if the manta was the only TK available to the tau (which it isn't, and which noone is suggesting), they'd still be nearly twice as good at titan killing as marines. I'm sorry, but that argument doesn't hold water.

Quote: (Dobbsy @ 27 Oct. 2008, 04:38 )

For one, killability. SMLC is 4DC and, like Hena mentioned, have you ever seen one go down to anything other than a crit? I've not. A 5DC aircraft(with a possible shield too??) seems a bit whiffy to me.


Note that I am also suggesting a downgrading in armour save to probably 5+ reinforced and probably a more deadly critical.

Quote: (Dobbsy @ 27 Oct. 2008, 04:38 )

You may not like Support Craft (in whichever format of rule) but they are definitely a fluffy Tau thing IMO as they add something different to the game.


Sure they add something different, they just don't make any sense.

I also note that you were perfectly in favour of the manta being tested as a bomber until the inconsistency with the moray came up. You want to keep the manta as a support craft to "protect" the moray?

So, theoretically, if the moray didn't exist you'd be ok with testing the manta as a bomber? Doesn't that suggest to you that the problem is with the moray? It was designed as a mini-manta, but with the manta as a bomber there already is a mini-manta; the AX-1-0. Does this not suggest a major overlap in the list to you?




_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:16 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Yep, the Manta's 850 points for 2xTK(d3) shots, whereas marines pay 850 points for one TK(d3) shot

Yep I know this, hence why I wrote current in italics. But my point wasn't to highlight the manta. I was speaking about the Moray mainly.

Even if the manta was the only TK available to the tau (which it isn't, and which noone is suggesting), they'd still be nearly twice as good at titan killing as marines
I know this too, but again my point wasn't about the Manta in the main. It was about cost and how, and why, the Moray fits in the list.

BTW, I agree about the Manta's armament so I think you're preaching to the coverted....  :;):

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 6:18 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
Sure the moray fills a gap in the list currently, that isn't in doubt. What's in doubt is whether that gap should be filled at all! All lists should have gaps, and the Tau list just doesn't have any big ones at the moment.

Even without the moray, it's not a huge gap, given the Manta and AX-1-0. It'd certainly be a much smaller anti-titan gap than the marines have.

Just because a unit fills a gap, that doesn't mean it should be in the list.




_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:16 am 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 3416
Location: Western Australia
E&C - Sorry to steal your thunder, but I already proposed making the Tau Support Craft Crits more damaging  :vD .
Of course I agree with that and it makes a lot of sense to me.


Reducing the Moray to 1xTK(3) shot basically means it and the AX-1-0 are stepping on each others toes. There is no need to have 2 units basically doing the same thing.
I think a gun reduction is a shoddy compromise that will lead to duplication of abilities in the list. If someone wants the Moray gone, they should just say that rather than trying to turn it into something that has to be removed later (if they get their way).

Keeping 2xTk(3) on the Moray and reducing its range to 45cm's means it has a lot more firepower but it can be dealt with more easily (it can't hide and can be shot at by just about anything). If a range reduction is used, there is absolutely no need for APU.
Moray becomes high risk/reward.

Now, if the range is kept at 75cm then I can possibly see a case for APU being considered. It must be said though, that on a table using the amount of terrain suggested in the Tournament Terrain rules (ie. 12 terrain features), it will generally be VERY easy to hide from Support Craft. I find Skimmers at long range to be a pain the neck to play (wasting so much time figuring out what can and can't be seen - BORING).

Incidently, why does everyone accept the abstact way that Aircraft can target a unit hiding behind a building but they can't accept a high flying Support craft? In a 15 minute turn, any Support Craft should be able to move from ground level to orbit easily (how long does the space shuttle take - Tau's gotta be faster than that?).

KISS.

All that said, I have thought a lot about E&C's list of weaknesses. It was an interesting list. Would a Tau army with 4 AX-1-0's (using the present stats/costs) be over powered? 4 WE aircraft firing TK(3) 45cm guns for 900pts seems quite powerful. Using TRC's stats you could have 3 flights of 2 Ax-1-0's for 825pts. 6x TK(3) hitting anywhere on the board. I can forsee this causing some consternation (love that word) for some.
A couple of high flying Morays could be a lot easier to deal with than that (and fairer) if they have to close to 45cm's to fire.
I'm warming to the idea of AX-1-0's thanks to E&C's comments but I'm still unsure if forcing an army to use aircraft to control Titans is a playable solution.

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 10:06 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Quote: (Onyx @ 27 Oct. 2008, 07:16 )

E&C - Sorry to steal your thunder, but I already proposed making the Tau Support Craft Crits more damaging  :vD .

I was also stealing Chroma's thunder from an off-board conversation, funnily enough.  :D


Reducing the Moray to 1xTK(3) shot basically means it and the AX-1-0 are stepping on each others toes. There is no need to have 2 units basically doing the same thing.


They both do the same thing right now IMHO; They are both medium-sized War Engines that run Anti-Titan duties. One has more DC, the other is an aircraft and so is more survivable.

The only significant difference is that one is a skimmer and one is a bomber.

The only difference in game terms between them right now IMHO is that the Moray is much better.

I think a gun reduction is a shoddy compromise that will lead to duplication of abilities in the list. If someone wants the Moray gone, they should just say that rather than trying to turn it into something that has to be removed later (if they get their way).

I've said many times I'd like to see the Moray removed and placed into a Tau 'Armour-themed army list' (Along with several other units that either duplicate roles or skew the Tau theme of the NetEA list) because it duplicates abilities with the AX-1-0 in the list, amongst other reasons.

Keeping 2xTk(3) on the Moray and reducing its range to 45cm's means it has a lot more firepower but it can be dealt with more easily (it can't hide and can be shot at by just about anything). If a range reduction is used, there is absolutely no need for APU.
Moray becomes high risk/reward.

There certainly is a need for APU, IMHO, otherwise you'll still have accusations of the Moray being able to stop at maximum range and then pop up into the stratosphere in order to see over buildings.



Now, if the range is kept at 75cm then I can possibly see a case for APU being considered. It must be said though, that on a table using the amount of terrain suggested in the Tournament Terrain rules (ie. 12 terrain features), it will generally be VERY easy to hide from Support Craft.

It will be easy to hide a few important units on turn 1 ; Anything that moves into the open is fair game.

I find Skimmers at long range to be a pain the neck to play (wasting so much time figuring out what can and can't be seen - BORING).

TACTICALLY COMPLEX.

Incidently, why does everyone accept the abstact way that Aircraft can target a unit hiding behind a building but they can't accept a high flying Support craft? In a 15 minute turn, any Support Craft should be able to move from ground level to orbit easily (how long does the space shuttle take - Tau's gotta be faster than that?).

Aircraft move a lot faster. According to the discriptions, support craft are supposed to hang in the air pretty much stationary, ala the alien ships from Independence Day... they're certainly not meant to be bouncing from earthside-to-orbit-and-back every 15 minutes...

...if they can do that, then why isn't their ground movement speed 'Bomber', rather than the unimpressive '20cm'...

...apparently they can move very fast, but only vertically?  :))


KISS.

That would be achieved by the note : 'Skimmer (Counts as being Always Popped Up)', rather than having a Special Rule (Support Craft).


All that said, I have thought a lot about E&C's list of weaknesses. It was an interesting list. Would a Tau army with 4 AX-1-0's (using the present stats/costs) be over powered? 4 WE aircraft firing TK(3) 45cm guns for 900pts seems quite powerful. Using TRC's stats you could have 3 flights of 2 Ax-1-0's for 825pts. 6x TK(3) hitting anywhere on the board. I can forsee this causing some consternation (love that word) for some.

I have a strong and abiding objection to allowing multiple War Engine aircraft in the same formation unless absolutely nessesary. Singles only, please, they're much easier to balance.

I'm warming to the idea of AX-1-0's thanks to E&C's comments but I'm still unsure if forcing an army to use aircraft to control Titans is a playable solution.

It's how the Tau operate in the background, and a lack of a Titan analogues (A position currently held in the NetEA list by the Moray and Manta) is supposed to be one of their weaknesses IMHO.


On Taros, despite the presence of more than a dozen Mantas which could have been comitted, the Tau didn't use them to fight four Imperial Warhound Titans when they led a Space Marine attack... the Tau were forced back dozens of miles until they used an AX-1-0 strike and kill a Warhound (Causing the Warhounds to fall back in fear).

They didn't bring up Mantas, or any other large Support Craft, to fight them on an equal footing, they struck from the air once the Warhounds had advanced beyond the protective cover of the Imperial AA weapons.




_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 12:21 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 1:24 am
Posts: 4499
Location: Melbourne, Australia
They didn't bring up Mantas, or any other large Support Craft, to fight them on an equal footing, they struck from the air once the Warhounds had advanced beyond the protective cover of the Imperial AA weapons.

Yep and I've read somewhere where assault marines carried melta bombs to deal with heavy armour targets, but you don't see them carrying them in E:A... point is the game translates differently than fluff. Sure it maybe how they're written about but making game decisions entirely on fluff can lead you down the wrong path.

I'm not saying either Support Craft is exactly balanced or playing as it should but they do add flavour with the rule regardless of whether some of us hate it or not. I think they should stay in the list as their current type. Personally, I don't think they are game breaking or boring to use as that type(as Support craft) they really just need a weapons adjust/special rule adjust. I'd be really disappointed to see them become aircraft basically.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 1:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Quote: (zombocom @ 27 Oct. 2008, 05:09 )

Even if the manta was the only TK available to the tau (which it isn't, and which noone is suggesting), they'd still be nearly twice as good at titan killing as marines. I'm sorry, but that argument doesn't hold water.

In regard to Tau and TK weapons... do they really need many?  

Aren't Tau well equipped with high quality, massed AT fire, generally on very mobile units that can set up crossfires and such?  Other than the thick rear armour on Warlords/Banelords, they should be easily stripping shields and ripping apart most War Engines with just their AT fire.

Additionally, saying that they don't have the TK to take on a Titan Legion list is a bit of a straw-man argument, as 1) the Titan Legion lists are still in development and 2) EVERY list has trouble taking on massed Titans!  *laugh*

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:16 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
Also note that the way to beat titan legions isn't to kill all the titans. take out the warhounds and it won't matter how much the battle titans kill, they'll not be able to grab enough objectives to win.

Note that I consider playing against AMTL almost as boring as playing against a Tau gunline...

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 2:58 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Quote: (Dobbsy @ 27 Oct. 2008, 11:21 )

They didn't bring up Mantas, or any other large Support Craft, to fight them on an equal footing, they struck from the air once the Warhounds had advanced beyond the protective cover of the Imperial AA weapons.

Yep and I've read somewhere where assault marines carried melta bombs to deal with heavy armour targets, but you don't see them carrying them in E:A...

That fact is represented by the Assault Marines having a CC3+ stat.

point is the game translates differently than fluff. Sure it maybe how they're written about but making game decisions entirely on fluff can lead you down the wrong path.

A lot of the time, that is true... but ignoring the background and making up your own things ('I don't like the Manta as an armed transport, wouldn't it be better if it had more guns so it could fight Warlord Titans and win! Plus it should be able to see everything, and have a really forgiving critical hit result...etc.') tends to end up with units/armies/special rules which don't really reflect the background at all.



In regard to Tau and TK weapons... do they really need many?

Aren't Tau well equipped with high quality, massed AT fire, generally on very mobile units that can set up crossfires and such?  

Theoretically, with 'only' the Manta and the AX-1-0 they still have a powerful set of TK weapons.

Plus yeah, they have a *lot* of really good AT weapons.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 3:29 pm 
Purestrain
Purestrain
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 10:14 am
Posts: 3416
Location: Western Australia
The only difference in game terms between them right now IMHO is that the Moray is much better.

Something that is obviously being addressed right now.

I've said many times I'd like to see the Moray removed and placed into a Tau 'Armour-themed army list' (Along with several other units that either duplicate roles or skew the Tau theme of the NetEA list) because it duplicates abilities with the AX-1-0 in the list, amongst other reasons.
How would you be able to stop yourself complaining about an Armoured list aswell? Sorry but I just can't buy that.

There certainly is a need for APU, IMHO, otherwise you'll still have accusations of the Moray being able to stop at maximum range and then pop up into the stratosphere in order to see over buildings.
But if maximum range was only 45cm's... Big difference (I know, I've tried it).

It will be easy to hide a few important units on turn 1 ; Anything that moves into the open is fair game.
And stupid!!! The Moray will be dead (or broken more likely) before it gets a shot off.

TACTICALLY COMPLEX.
Thats actually almost insulting. My comment is fair (working out whats targetable using Skimmers at long range is time consuming and can cause friction as to players interpretations) but your answer seems to indicate that I don't like using tactics to win a game...

Aircraft move a lot faster. According to the discriptions, support craft are supposed to hang in the air pretty much stationary, ala the alien ships from Independence Day... they're certainly not meant to be bouncing from earthside-to-orbit-and-back every 15 minutes...

...if they can do that, then why isn't their ground movement speed 'Bomber', rather than the unimpressive '20cm'...

...apparently they can move very fast, but only vertically?
That's almost not worth answering but I will give reply so you can quote it and pick it apart (as usual).
How far can you drive in a car in 15 minutes? It's a lot further than the width of an Epic board. My question still stands and you haven't answered it (yes, there's a difference to driving a car on a road and moving a vehicle in a combat zone - hence the max move of 20cm, or 60cm if marching).

That would be achieved by the note : 'Skimmer (Counts as being Always Popped Up)', rather than having a Special Rule (Support Craft).
Actually, the present Support Craft rule is the very idea of KISS.
I can't hide from you and you can't hide from me.
Anything else is obviously more complicated.

I have a strong and abiding objection to allowing multiple War Engine aircraft in the same formation unless absolutely nessesary. Singles only, please, they're much easier to balance.
As I read TRC's list, his AX-1-0 are not War Engines (I stand to be corrected on that though).

It's how the Tau operate in the background, and a lack of a Titan analogues (A position currently held in the NetEA list by the Moray and Manta) is supposed to be one of their weaknesses IMHO.
I'm hopefully getting hold of a copy of The Taros campaign soon and then I'll be able to read the fluff myself (and get the story in it's full context). As has been mentioned before though, the battle on Taros was one specific battle. What other coroberating evidence is there to support other interpretations of how Tau fight?

_________________
Just call me Steve.

NetEA Rules Chair
NetEA FAQ

Want to play Iron Warriors in Epic Armageddon? Click HERE
Some of my Armies.
My Hobby site.


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 4:55 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
Quote: (Onyx @ 27 Oct. 2008, 14:29 )

Aircraft move a lot faster. According to the discriptions, support craft are supposed to hang in the air pretty much stationary, ala the alien ships from Independence Day... they're certainly not meant to be bouncing from earthside-to-orbit-and-back every 15 minutes...

...if they can do that, then why isn't their ground movement speed 'Bomber', rather than the unimpressive '20cm'...

...apparently they can move very fast, but only vertically?

That's almost not worth answering but I will give reply so you can quote it and pick it apart (as usual).
How far can you drive in a car in 15 minutes? It's a lot further than the width of an Epic board. My question still stands and you haven't answered it (yes, there's a difference to driving a car on a road and moving a vehicle in a combat zone - hence the max move of 20cm, or 60cm if marching).

Actually, E&C does make a good point here. It doesn't make sense that the moray can shoot several miles up to orbit in the same time it could only move a few hundred metres laterally.

Plus, if it really is miles up in orbit, how exactly can it be hit with a ground based autocannon?

Either it is a fast, high flying vehicle (bomber) or it is a slow, hovering one (skimmer, APU).

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 5:00 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Quote: (Onyx @ 27 Oct. 2008, 14:29 )

TACTICALLY COMPLEX.

Thats actually almost insulting. My comment is fair (working out whats targetable using Skimmers at long range is time consuming and can cause friction as to players interpretations) but your answer seems to indicate that I don't like using tactics to win a game...

Well I'm sorry, but Morays and Mantas under the current Support Craft rule are 'point and click' units that don't require tactical manuever to use in the game. They just drive wherever they like on the board unleashing very powerful attacks that can't be hidden from.

That's not tactically complex, that's 'BORING', to quote yourself.



Aircraft move a lot faster. According to the discriptions, support craft are supposed to hang in the air pretty much stationary, ala the alien ships from Independence Day... they're certainly not meant to be bouncing from earthside-to-orbit-and-back every 15 minutes...

...if they can do that, then why isn't their ground movement speed 'Bomber', rather than the unimpressive '20cm'...

...apparently they can move very fast, but only vertically?
That's almost not worth answering but I will give reply so you can quote it and pick it apart (as usual).
How far can you drive in a car in 15 minutes? It's a lot further than the width of an Epic board. My question still stands and you haven't answered it (yes, there's a difference to driving a car on a road and moving a vehicle in a combat zone - hence the max move of 20cm, or 60cm if marching).


Epic's ground scale is elastic, so the principle is (roughly) that 30cm is twice as far as 15cm, and 45cm is twice as far as 30cm, and 60cm is twice as far as 45cm, etc. in an exponential manner. The distance from board edge to board edge is meant to be fifty miles or so IIRC.

That's not just me making that up, that's from Jervis (I may be wrong on the exact scale, but the principle of 'elastic distances' holds true). IIRC he explains it in the rulebook's FAQ section (At the same time as telling you not to think too hard about terrain which shrinks or grows depending on how far away it is), which I don't have to hand ATM as I've lent my copy to someone as I'm giving him an intro game soon.

So yeah, if a Moray can bounce into orbit and back in 15minutes, how come it can't move much quicker than a man on foot on a horizontal plane?

Zombocom elucidates it well; Either the Support Craft is slow, or it is fast, it cannot be both.

=====

Silly fluff debates aside, the whole reason the main skimmer rule was ammended in the first place was because popping up above all intervening terrain was terribly annoying.




_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: Aspect: Tau Units
PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2008 8:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Fri May 13, 2005 11:01 pm
Posts: 1455
Quote: (Onyx @ 27 Oct. 2008, 07:29 )

It's how the Tau operate in the background, and a lack of a Titan analogues (A position currently held in the NetEA list by the Moray and Manta) is supposed to be one of their weaknesses IMHO.

I'm hopefully getting hold of a copy of The Taros campaign soon and then I'll be able to read the fluff myself (and get the story in it's full context). As has been mentioned before though, the battle on Taros was one specific battle. What other coroberating evidence is there to support other interpretations of how Tau fight?

Since there's only the Tau codex from 40k3e, Imperial Armour 3: The Taros Campaign, and the Tau Empire codex from 40k4e (in order of appearance), we're kind of stuck for more information.  It's unlikely that FW will do another Tau-centered book for a while, and I expect to see a campaign involving the Eldar (and/or Dark Eldar) after the Siege of Vrax (IA5/6/7?) wraps up.

Way back on the SG boards, the question was asked 'How do Tau kill Titans and WEs?'  I suggested aircraft (Tigersharks, I think) carrying MW or TK missiles (before IA3 and the AX10), using examples from WW2 and first Gulf War.  Then came the Moray as a 'Manta without transport' attack craft.

In the Tau codex (40k3e), there's a sidebar listing Grand Tactical equipment.  The only items mentioned are the Manta and the Barracuda (The Orca was introduced by the game Fire Warrior, as a dedicated 'C130' type transport aircraft).  This information is repeated in the Tau Empire codex (40k4e).  IA3 introduces the Tigershark and AX10 (well, Tigershark had been published earlier, in one of the thin Imperial Armor books).  There is a mention of an Orca gunship with missiles and bombs in IA3 as well, but no more than a brief passage that a variant was reported but not positively identified.

=====

Like I said, we're pretty much stuck.  The Fire Warrior game is a waste of time as a reference, since the game itself is a first-person shooter.  There aren't any novels (except a novel based on the Fire Warrior game) centered on the Tau way of war.  There is passing mention of Tau operations in one of the Ciaphas Caine stories, as well as a Last Chancers short, but nothing that actually describes the way Tau deal with major battles other than the 2 codecii and IA3.  Searching through the descriptions of Farsight and Shadowsun gives a little more information about Tau v. Orks, but it can be summed up as allowing the Orks to bleed themselves dry against a strongpoint or through a defense in depth.

_________________
"For the Lion and the Emperor!"


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 287 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 ... 20  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net