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Call to Arms points system

 Post subject: Call to Arms points system
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 9:59 am 
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Isn't that prejudicing things against infantry horde armies like ferals, regular Orks infantry builds, siegers and tank heavy guard armies who play 4 turn games?

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 Post subject: Call to Arms points system
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 12:07 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 11 Oct. 2008, 09:59 )

Isn't that prejudicing things against infantry horde armies like ferals, regular Orks infantry builds, siegers and tank heavy guard armies who play 4 turn games?

Hmm an interesting point. As I suggested, the win is all that matters? not the scale or how quickly?

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 Post subject: Call to Arms points system
PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 10:03 pm 
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Quote: (Rug @ 10 Oct. 2008, 22:26 )

If you bring along your piece of paper I'll bring along my Britcon plaques. I should think Dave could make a 6 x 4 table out of all the trophies he's won!

At least an 8x4 table

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 Post subject: Call to Arms points system
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 1:42 pm 
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Quote: (Rug @ 11 Oct. 2008, 14:14 )

No, I honestly think thats just you! I know people who draw the game out if they're ahead for points, but most people feel they have to aim to be on the objectives turn three if only to contest the other side. Turn 4 is always a gamble due to fighting strength and accumulating BMs, time etc, I don't think any army lists especially rely on a four turn games, just a few players.

Really? :) So when you play a feral army and decide to play corner to corner? Or any 'slow' army that is forced to play in such a way? I don't think anyone plays to win turn 4, they play to win as quickly as possible to stop as you say the other player from winning. However certain army match ups do rely on weathering the storm before counter attacking. Eldar for example could be aggressively all over you depending on army selection for 3 turns and here the strategy is to last until later turns when they are spent.

Why would anyone aim for a long drawn out war? The additional time and casualties would make the victory pretty hollow.


Well a good reason is if you are losing. If the top placed player is being steamrollered by the 2nd placed player and is loosing to such an extent that a draw is out of reach (assuming they aren't a gamey bugger and all of a sudden even picking up the dice takes 10 minutes) the next best choice would be to sacrifice everything to delay things to turn 4, potentially even winning you the tourny.

I think the current system already gives the loser a bit of a boost for loosing over 4 turns instead of 3 - you should be wary of making it bigger.

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 Post subject: Call to Arms points system
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 3:53 pm 
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You wouldn't be drawing the game out to salavage points, you would be doing it to deny the enemy ppoints, a slightly different objective. As for dropping the objectives deep in the slow armies corner if you have a 'fast' army such placement shouldn't be a problem for you.

I deliberately didn't inlcude siegers in corners as yes, unless your army can drop ont he artillary you are just going to get shot enough - everyone should now know a wide frontage is the worse thing to happen to a siege army :)

But by making 4 turn games a lot worse than 3 turn ones you are altering peoples army picks. You have to have a fast enough army, so it does alter the 'meta' game. Sure 3 turn games are better to fit into the time availible but if every army was a fast one it would make the selection a bit narrower and I think also a bit more boring.

You also make things more restrictive for future lists - they will have an aspect of being able to shift enough stuff into winning positions into 3 turns rather than just denying positions (which as you point out has its own risks).

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 Post subject: Call to Arms points system
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 8:34 am 
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Quote: (Rug @ 12 Oct. 2008, 14:31 )

Ferals are not all that slow for one (boars, junkas),have access to some amazing garrisons (mobs with arty and wyrds) and great BTS choices (Gargants, mad boyz). I the other player wants to be difficult and plays corners, and places all the objectives deep in your half he's just making it difficult for himself, the ferals don't have to rush head long at the enemy to win....  Besides feral player can expect to often be forced to play corners and write a list accordingly.

Just to chip in here.

I feel that unless a Feral player has access to lots of Boars & Junkas he will find it difficult to win tournament games against a higher SR army.

A higher SR army will always play corner to corner forcing Ferals to retain as much as possible to give the formations support, otherwise the formations end up advancing towards the enemy in a piecemeal fashion and beeing hit accordingly.

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 Post subject: Call to Arms points system
PostPosted: Mon Oct 13, 2008 10:00 am 
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Quote: (Rug @ 12 Oct. 2008, 16:54 )

Do you consider a three turn game a fast game? I always considered it the norm with a 4th turn being only being used every 3-4 games and a 5th or 6th turm being VERY rare.

Are you playing devil advocate here?  :yes:  because it gets me every time :))  :glare:

Nah, of course not :)

Ok yes you are right no one I think plans to win in 4 turns :) Everyone wants to win as quickly as possible, largely to stop their opponent from doing the same! The 4th turn is unplanned and people are forced to it - however I do worry about people who, say, play for draws having another option which is playing for turns as well.

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