I'm not sure about marines as assault marines are much more expensive than drones.

I have never played with the list (I'm ashamed to admit I didn't spot this one on my own, TRC pointed it out to me last week)nor have I played against it as I'm the only person in my regular groups with a Tau army I know of. I also don't normally like using optimised lists.

As to the solution I would like to see drones used purely as upgrades for other formations.

fair enough, it would reduce the number of formation types in the list....

Who knows, have to find out if its a problem first. It was definitively a problem with the old 125 point sieger companies. Other unit types can be spammed very effectively. A marines cant as they have no ranged fire and are pretty bad at assaults Can these chaps? With FW/Crisis as the base you don't have much AT, so a good army to try against would be I reckon an Imperial Guard tank army. Two variants I can think of.

'Standard' high activation force
900  12 Drone Formations
350 SC crisis
1000 5 FW formations
600 6 Orca
150 Tigershark
25 activations

Out activate opponent then hit with firewarriors and Orca (AT).

or manta force
850 Manta
900  12 Drone Formations
250 Crisis
1000 5 FW formations
19 activations

Out activation then hit with manta free from any counterstrike turn 1, and maybe go first turn 2

Any fixes would wait on is it a winning combo, then if it is and you don't want armies like that you can look at the options.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I prefer a list with 2 morays planetfalling from a hero. Then orca's filled with 2 formation of suits each to take advantage of the jetpack rule and attack targets of opportunity. It is AA light though.

Whole idea is nothing fancy, just overwhelm. A human wave attack as it were

Guess could throw in some markerlights to help the Orca. But I'd leave the fancy stuff aside. A crisis orca combo is 425 points - almost the same here as 4 activations. And you need a load to cope with loses.

The Planetfalling moray and hero are an option. More activations but will they last to turn 3 and 4?

Its a good question though. Whats better 2 moray and hero or 1 manta?

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Can manta planetfall on the same turn as an enemy spaceship is about?

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

With FW/Crisis as the base you don't have much AT, so a good army to try against would be I reckon an Imperial Guard tank army.

Seems odd drones can take objectives.

_________________
Light at the Horizon.

Warp Rift
Project Distant Darkness
Eldar MMS

GothiComp Hall of Fame
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19176

About independent drones:

Yes I have played against 3 formations of Drones and even that was exceedingly good, couldn't even think any dat that those formations skimming at 30cm move and not taking BM could cost as little as 75 points.

Let's face it: any formation costing less than 100 points is already so good in itself, just the extra activation is worth something.. and then you can use them to block enemy movement, claim objectives and even shoot or assault..

150 points for current formation would be ok. If they would get BM as others and save would be 6+, then maybe 100, but as it is hard to make things more expensive later on than reduce the cost, I would go on safe side and put 125.

(and Orca is still too cheap; obviously no one has enough $$$ to wield horde of them so that abuse is prevented by that like card rarity worked in early magic...)

Not true. Some popcorn armies are just too good. A few that have been axed through playtesting are as I've mentioned above Warhound hordes, feral/decimator hordes, siege infantry horde and siege infantry /arty horde - 21 activations, 7 infantry and 14 arty batteries/fast units/thunderbolts ( (eventually ). The landing craft + 13 thawks might have worked but everyone refused to play it

Balanced tourney lists are just that, balanced. Extreme lists normally trouce most of them but come up against something they can't cope with (too much armour say). Activation horde lists sometimes surpass this and sometimes don't, depending on a range of factors. Does the high speed here and bm creation potential outwiegh that or not? Hence giving it a game or two.

Assuming I do convince my wife to let me go tonight (its a hard life) how do you reckon a 25 activation army shown above will play? 1/4 air assets, 1/2 30cm drones (so a bugger to cc and damn fast) and 1/4 tough infantry?

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

So, can all lists be powergamed, only Tau or is it personal perceptive?

_________________
Light at the Horizon.

Warp Rift
Project Distant Darkness
Eldar MMS

GothiComp Hall of Fame
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19176

I believe now after the last round of tourni changes the Guard lists, marines and Ghazgul horde can't be (at least all the tricks above are now impossible ), and I would hope the Eldar and other Ork lists have joined them, but I've not much experience of playing with them compared to the others.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

TRC, I can't make it along tonight. I still want to test a Tau popcorn list and maybe if I find the time do a proper battle report. I want to take an optimised marine army against it. Do you reckon you can come along next Tues.