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'New' 40k Imperial background

 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Sun Aug 31, 2008 10:11 pm 
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In the german rulebook there is no . or , :)
And i knew of the siwtch so i used , in my number.

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 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 12:03 pm 
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I like some of the new rulebook background.  Some of it looks interesting but lacking, mainly with the references on the timeline.  I want more detail on them.

On the number thing.  I have never liked how GW seems to pluck them out of the air.

hive worlds with a population of 4 or 5 billion, that is less than our civilised world.

Agri worlds with caretaker populations which feel far too small to manage continent spanning farms.

And troop ships of random sizes.  Codex: IG states that regiments are normally a few thousand strong so that they can all fit on a standard transport (so you don’t lose half a regiment in transit).  Then right at then end of the timeline they have a troopship carrying 5 million guardsmen?

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 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:16 pm 
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Quote: (ragnarok @ 01 Sep. 2008, 12:03 )

I like some of the new rulebook background.  Some of it looks interesting but lacking, mainly with the references on the timeline.  I want more detail on them.

The timeline is the most comprehensive one I've ever seen GW do.

On the number thing.  I have never liked how GW seems to pluck them out of the air.

hive worlds with a population of 4 or 5 billion, that is less than our civilised world.


'Minea' is described as a typical Hive World, and has a population of 154 Billion, page 115.

Agri worlds with caretaker populations which feel far too small to manage continent spanning farms.

I can't find any population figures for a typical agri-world, but having lived in the country side (In the UK, one of the most densely populated countries in the world) with my nearest neighbour two miles away, and the nearest town (Population 2000) ten miles away, I could well believe a small population figure for an agri-world... any excess population would be tithed offworld to keep the population small.


And troop ships of random sizes.  Codex: IG states that regiments are normally a few thousand strong so that they can all fit on a standard transport (so you don’t lose half a regiment in transit).  Then right at then end of the timeline they have a troopship carrying 5 million guardsmen?

We have big and small ships today too.

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 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:23 pm 
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Quote: (ragnarok @ 01 Sep. 2008, 12:03 )

Hive worlds with a population of 4 or 5 billion, that is less than our civilised world.

When asked the studio staff I've talked too say they use British not American billions. - 1,000,000,000,000 instead of 1,000,000,000.

Quote: (ragnarok @ 01 Sep. 2008, 12:03 )

And troop ships of random sizes.  Codex: IG states that regiments are normally a few thousand strong so that they can all fit on a standard transport (so you don’t lose half a regiment in transit).  Then right at then end of the timeline they have a troopship carrying 5 million guardsmen?

The 'typical' regiment size was set by the capacity of an Imperial Cruiser back in the days of the Imperial Army. Merchantmen or troop ships could be of any size (even back as far as space fleet).




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 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 1:30 pm 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 01 Sep. 2008, 14:23 )

When asked the studio staff I've talked too say they use British not American billions. - 1,000,000,000,000 instead of 1,000,000,000.

That's what I call useful information in such discussions.

At the moment an Imperial Cruiser is represented by 1500crew per hitpoint. Thus in total 8x1500 = 12000 crew.
Or so I believe.




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 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Mon Sep 01, 2008 4:00 pm 
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Crew and transport capacity are two pair of shoes :)

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 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2008 11:37 pm 
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The vision and scope for warhammer and 40k belong to Rick Priestly, John Blanche and Brian Ansell. For these, seemingly well educated guys we have much to be gratefull for. Others have done little or serious demage - many writers seeming nerdy and insular rather than outwardly referential as 40k really is (references being medieval history - The Silmarillion, Paradise Lost and many, many others) These guys work for a fantasy/sci-fi games company - but Warhammer and 40K demonstrate a huge love for history and historic wargames (note Warmaster and of course Warhammer Ancients seem to me to be indications of Priestly's true loves.)

Transporting Knights, Elves and Orks into space might seem silly at first, but when constantly re-enforced with cross referencs to real history and culture suddenly it seems somehow more authentic - say compared to Apes in space suits :whistle:. But when continually referencing itself it goes in the direction of pointlessness and extreme nerdyness. Star Trek and Star Wars have often made this mistake.

Any way it's my belief that these references contribute to making GW stuff so popular, even if the references are barely understood by the consumers - and the more obscure ones (chaos for example) allow us to dig deep and gives material for our curiosity. And with the internet it's much easier than ever to follow things up.

Size and scope is a problem especially with novels. Dan Abnett can get it about right at times though the real difficulty is with the novel form which focuses on a few characters. History books allow time to concentrate on greater scope by not getting bogged down on the personal matters of a few characters.

Space Marines to me have always been futuristic version of Holy Warrior Knights such as the templars. The idea is that you have a small band of 'holy' brothers who, can control huge areas. The Teutonic States for example. They do so with huge numbers of more ordinary folk of course - more normal warriors, administrators etc. While the historic intent is there and the picture is painted, 1000 marines per chapter seems not enough for the job at hand when we're talking about planets etc. Then again, as a friend pointed out to me: How many men did Cortes have?

My thoughts

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 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 2:43 am 
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Quote: (alansa @ 02 Sep. 2008, 23:37 )

How many men did Cortes have?

It's true.  There's a lot to be said in favor of technological advantage combined with sheer ruthlessness.  It's pretty mind-boggling what Cortez managed to do, but it certainly sets a precedent when one is discussing Space Marines and their role in the big picture.

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 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 7:27 am 
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1000 marines per chapter seems not enough for the job at hand when we're talking about planets etc. Then again, as a friend pointed out to me: How many men did Cortes have?


Good point. The 1000 Marines per chapter thing used to bug me but that example makes sense.

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 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 9:59 am 
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Also Space Marines are an elite strike force. They wouldn't be used to hold a planet,  


True. But like Holy Warriors of old they do hold their own territory - whether that territory be vast or just a lump of rock in the middle of the 'sea'

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 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 10:07 am 
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Are you casting aspersions against poor Vanvlak?  :laugh:

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 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:24 pm 
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Quote: (alansa @ 04 Sep. 2008, 10:59 )

True. But like Holy Warriors of old they do hold their own territory - whether that territory be vast or just a lump of rock in the middle of the 'sea'

Oi!

(well spotted Justiniel :vD !)

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 Post subject: 'New' 40k Imperial background
PostPosted: Thu Sep 04, 2008 12:27 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 04 Sep. 2008, 12:16 )

Quote: (alansa @ 04 Sep. 2008, 11:59 )

Also Space Marines are an elite strike force. They wouldn't be used to hold a planet,  

True. But like Holy Warriors of old they do hold their own territory - whether that territory be vast or just a lump of rock in the middle of the 'sea'

In general they don't lord over their territory by threat of violence. They are more interested in getting children to add marines than lording over populations.


As I say - the terrain held by holy fighting orders can be vast or small, depending on the order. This is both true historically and in 40k

If the marines only want recruits then the don't need control of entire planets. They can simply maintain small territories within planets and take tribute from the main planetary government.

No Space Marines are lords, I think, and some govern entire planets for all they can get of it and for their own reasons - their mini empires *almost* separate from the main Imperium. Though at times they may provide considerable lack of consideration to the population, due to their introspectiveness, and let people get on with stuff.

Most of the time if the people are loyal or simply unconcerned then no threat is necessary. If anyone does want to play silly-buggers then the simple threat should be enough to keep trouble at bay.

But as we all know, there can be threats both internal and external.

Just how I see things anyway...




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