What if, instead of wimping-down the Imperator, the Imperator was the focus of it's own, separate army list. It seems like the idea behind the Emperor-class titans is that they are the equal to entire armies, so why not make them worth (in effectiveness AND point cost) an entire army.

If they had their own separate army list, there wouldn't be as much heart burn over giving them a bunch of special rules allowing them to split fire or have multiple activations. Also, having their own list would allow for a more constrained list of supporting formations, leading to easier playtesting.

I'd think that if the target point cost was 1800pts, and they were allowed some ability to split fire or activate different sections of the titan separately, then it could be a viable army list (assuming an appropriate but limited mix of available support formations).

I realize this would put a crimp in getting the Imperator in the AMTL list, but I just wanted to put this out there as an idea.

That's not a bad idea. I personally think the Imperator doesn't really belong on the AMTL list anyway. In order to capture the proper feel of it, it's going to need some special rules.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

I don't have a problem with a separate set of rules for Imperators, but I don't think that any of the three systems that have been proposed worked particularly well.  So far, I think the best (though most bland) proposal was just allowing the Impy and Mega to split fire.

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Neal

I like the idea of the Imp as an entire army.

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"Your limbs are mighty. Let them smite the foes of our Emperor."

I'm adverse to giving it too many special rules... if it can't be made to work in a sensible fashion (IE: 'Toned down' stats that are balanced for GT play) I think it can probably head off to the collector's section of the list.

So far reports on the toned down version have been mainly positive, but from only a handful of games.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I guess that's the problem I have. I don't want a "toned down" Imperator.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

i plan on running my imperator whenever i can. its a giant point sink i guess, but it is the first model that drew my attention to gaming when i was younger. i guess ill see how it plays in the game.

Okay, here's some rules to better illustrate what I'm talking about. If the different "Parts" of the titan could be made equivalent to each other, I think this could probably be inserted as-is into the AMTL list.

Imperator Titan  1800 points (WAG)

Special Rules:
The Imperator may be activated up to 4 times each turn. Instead of firing all of the Imperator's weapons, the player must choose which part of the Imperator he/she is activating, from the following list: Right Arm, Left Arm, Fire Control Center, or Perimeter Weapon Systems. Each part of the Imperator may be activated multiple times per turn, but the total number of activations used by all of the parts cannot exceed 4.

In addition, certain actions are modified:
Double action: Imperator may not fire
March Action: Not Allowed; the Imperator can not be given a march action
Marshall: the Imperator regroups using 2D3 instead of 2D6, otherwise the Imperator marshalls as normal

The Imperator counts as 2 Titan formations for the purposes of choosing Support formations.

Type: WE
Speed: 5cm
Armour: 4+
CC: 4+
FF: 3+

Weapons:
  Left Arm
     Plasma Annihilator  90cm  MW3+  TK(D3), FxF
  Right Arm
     Hellstorm Cannon  90cm  6BP  FxF
  Fire Control Center
     Defense Laser  90cm  MW4+/AA4+  TK(1)
     Barrage Cannon  75cm  3BP  MW, indirect fire, FxF
  Perimeter Weapon Systems
     Tower Cannons  60cm  2xAP4+/AT4+/AA5+
     Twin anti-armour turrets  30cm  4xAP6+/AT4+
     Twin anti-infantry turrets  30cm  4xAP4+/AT6+
     Point Defenses  (15cm)  (small arms)  EA(+4)

Notes:
Damage Capacity 18, Transport(16), Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Inspiring, Supreme Commander, Walker, Fearless, Invulnerable, Infiltrator. May not march, may not fire on a double action, regroup with 2D3 instead of 2D6. May step over units and impassable or dangerous terrain that is lower than the Titan’s knees and up to 5cm wide.

Critical Hit Effect:
For each critical hit sustained by the Imperator, it loses one activation, to a minimum of 1 activation. When the Imperator can not lose any further activations, the Imperator’s plasma reactor has been damaged. Roll a D6 for the Imperator in the end phase of every turn: on a roll of 1 the reactor explodes destroying the Imperator on a roll of 2-3 the Imperator suffers one more point of damage, and on a roll of 4-6 the critical hit is repaired. If the reactor explodes, any units within 20cms of the Imperator will be hit on a roll of 4+.

This is a great idea to implement an otherwise overpowered game piece.  Some other suggestions:

Treat the Imp as, say, six formations (Bridge, Right Arm, Left Arm, Weapons Deck, Support Systems, and Legs) for purposes of accumulating blast markers, rallying, DC, fire control, etc.  If you think about it, each section would likely have its own damage control crew, leadership structure, etc., that would function as an independent entity within the larger structure.  If a particular section were badly hit, morale there would plummet and the crew might attempt to flee to safer portions of the Titan, while other sections might not be aware of the calamity at all.

Splitting fire would be a must, as each weapon system would have its own gunners, similar to a WWII battleship.  

A printed diagram of the Imp could be used to track where damage and blast markers were accumulated.  

The Imp might even be able to carry small numbers of infantry for deployment in urban areas, which would make the concept of creating an army list centered around the Imp even more justifiable.  If each leg could hold a few stands, you could deploy a platoon of stormtroopers or some Ogryns to deal with those pesky enemy crunchies hidden among the rubble.

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Set phasers on "fun"!

I hate to throw a monkey wrench into this, but 4 activations will make this thing ridiculously fast.  It would need to have a 5cm move for a 20cm "base" move.  Of course, that means that the benefit of a Double Move action are so small that it would be pointless, so perhaps the "no firing" restriction could be removed as well.

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Neal

5cm move, plus no firing on a double, plus no marching allowed.

An alternative would be to make a separate "engine" part that is the only one that can be activated to move the Titan, but that would probably lead to all other sections taking sustained fire actions.

As it is, with 4 activation, a 5cm move, no firing on a double, and no marching, it is slightly slower than a warlord. It will still be ridiculously fast on a road, though.

I have a feeling that the stats I gave aren't all that balanced. The shooting output of the four sections (or however many there could be) need to be point-wise equivalent, which they aren't yet.

Hmmm... what if it had no Double Move capability?  It could be limited to its base movement no matter what.  And, you could have a special rule that the Imperator treats all terrain as normal terrain;  do away with the road bonus and the bad-going penalties in one swell foop.  Certain terrain would still be impassable, but otherwise everything else could count as normal terrain.

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Set phasers on "fun"!

Or only one section has a move value. The others have move zero. of course then it could garrison Maybe move 1cm

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It's silly stuff like this that makes me think that it really is nessesary to abstract all of the secondary weapons into FF/CC stats in order to make this beast even half-way playable...

...All that the AMTL Imperator is lacking at this point is the panoply of secondary weapons (Heavy Bolters, Lascannons etc, as they have been absorbed into its impressive FF firepower), and it has dropped down to 12DC (As that's the DC I think the Emperor class hull would have if it were re-introduced today, based on the 3-6-9(-12?) DC progression of the Imperial Titans in W40k).

Its main gun systems are still tremendously powerful.

- Plasma Annihilator - 90cm, 4x MW2+, TK(D3), Slow Firing
- Hellstorm Cannon - 60cm, 10BP
- Defence Laser - 90cm, MW2+/AA4+, TK(D3)
- 4x Battle Cannons - 75cm, AP4+/AT4+
- Quake Cannon - 90cm, 3BP Macro Weapon
- Tertiary Guns (A few heavy bolters and lascannons) - +2 FF attacks
- Leg Bastions (Counts-as Corvus Assault Pod)

Look at those guns and try and tell me it's been neutered!

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Well, there are a lot of ways to skin this cat, but going along the lines of what I've described above (allowing a move in every activation), here are the posibilities I see:

4 activations, 5cm move, no marching, no road bonus (40cm per turn max)
3 activations, 5cm move, no road bonus (45cm per turn max)
2 activations, 10cm move, no marching, no road bonus (40cm per turn max)
2 activations, 5cm move (30cm per turn max; 60cm with roads)

Of the choices above, I think 3 activations with a 5cm move and not allowing a road bonus might be the best choice (now that I think about it).

The trick to this approach is to make sure the titan is divided into the same number of segments as it has activations (3 segments and 3 activations, or 4 segments and 4 activations, etc.) and make sure the segments have equivalent firepower.

I figure this approach has additional benefits:

1) Allowing the same segment to activate multiple times approximates the old mechanic of allocating plasma (the plasma anihilator can fire twice at the expense of the fire control center getting plasma).

2) Allowing the titan to make multiple small moves during a turn is a pretty good representation of the titan as a plodding, irresistable force.

3) Gives the AMTL player flexibility that is equivalent to having multiple smaller formations (which is okay as long as the Titan is given an appropriate point cost).

4) This approach only requires the player to keep track of how many activations he's used in a single turn. There is no need to track whether or not the titan is allowed to moved based on some previous activation. There is no need to track which parts of the titan have already activated.