I was thinking of starting Cygnar next. I like Stryker fluffwise, so I want force around him. I like Warjacks, so jack-heavylist is what I am after. First I want Mangled Metal list, and then up same list to 500 points, if possible.

I was thinking Centurion, Lancer and Hunter for MM, or should I go for Starterbox? Could they be any good? Then Journeyman Warcaster and maybe stormsmiths...

Any ideas/help?

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Hi

I would always recommend starterbox as a great way of getting into Warmachine. For Cygnar you get Stryker as warcaster, Ironclad as heavy jack and Lancer and Charger as light jacks. Of these Stryker and Ironclad would probably be given an average rating, Lancer as above average and Charger as below average. Just based on my own brief experiience and the consensus on Privateer Press forums.

The consensus is that Charger us below par. I have stubbornly persisted with it determined to make it work. But I think I am ready to admit defeat- you can make Charger work but it requires too much of your focus points.

The Ironclad I like- it is durable and can hit hard. But I much prefer the Centurion. With spear it has reach and shield adds to the defence.

The Lancer is great and would recomend to take at least one. Has a shield and spear so good defence and reach. But most importantly has arc node so can channel spells through the Lancer, thereby boosting range or enabling caster to remain in safer position.

Journeyman Warcaster is almost a must-have for Cygnar force. It is a unique advantage that Cygnar has over other factions. It enables you to field an extra jack or to free up more of your main Warcaster's focus points for spell casting rather than allocated to jacks. A popular jack to take for Journeyman Warcasters is in fact the Hunter as it can be deployed at twice the normal distance from warcaster anmd still be allocated focus points. This enables it to be sent, often round opposition flanks whilst the relatively fragile Journeyman remains in cover. Also Hunetr's armour piercing gun is great for penetrating armour of heavy jacks.

I like the Stormsmiths models and they can be highly effective in game. But background wise they are most often identified with Nemo, Stryker's former mentor. The troops most often identified with Stryker are the Strormblades, and in fact Epic Stryker can field additional Stormblades with additional abilities.

If you don't want to go for starterbox, then you could go for Stryker, Centurion, Lancer and Hunetr for mangled metal games, then add Journeyman Warcaster and Stormblades to take you to 500 points.

Cheers

James

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My 500 point Cygnar list is Stryker, Junior (Journeyman), 3 bugzappers (Stormsmiths), a unit of Stormblades plus the Lieutenant and Standard, a Centurion, and a Stormclad.

It's a very unforgiving of errors, though.  Just because stormsmiths are most commonly associated with Nemo doesn't mean that stryker doesn't use them.  

basic idea is to line the 'blades up across the middle, bookend with the jacks, and let junior cast either arcane shield or blur on the 'blades.  ARM18 is hard to crack, and during Stryker's feat turn it's ARM 23!  With the unit attachment (the Lt and Std), the 'blades are P+S 15 or 16.  They are quite capable of beating down warjacks un-assisted.  Add the stormclad, and they get to arc electricity to other things.  The standard has a mini-feat, where the unit can charge models, throw POW15 lightning 6" to hit other models, and still get their P+S 15 charge attacks (that's 15 +3d6 damage each)!  Not many units can do that.

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"For the Lion and the Emperor!"

Mmmmm... Stormclad...

I am definedly getting me Stormclad, even if it does seem like paper tiger rulewise. Maybe not first thought...

I was thinkin of getting that starterbox first, there I would get Stryker and Lancer. And Ironclad, which I think is quite iconic Cygnar jack. Charger... Does not look good and is not good. But maybe with little greenstuff I could make him in to a Hunter. That way I would have MM team. Then those Stormblades and Junior. But that would just give me 440 points and after Stormblades Unit Attachment to 483. Then there would only be points for Field Mechaniaks.

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Population loves Polaris

Chargers work well with Junior, though.  For a main force, they're not so hot.

Stormclad is a nasty piece of work, even though that list doesn't take full advantage of him.  EVERYTHING within 12" of the Stormclad is Fearless, and almost all of that army list already is Fearless.  The other place for your stormclad is right in the thick of things, backing up your 'blades, instead of on one end of the line.

Like I said, that's a really finicky list to run.  I've lost more games than I've won, but that's mostly due to being either outplayed or dice luck.

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"For the Lion and the Emperor!"

Cool sounding list. Stormsmiths, Stormblades and Stormclad.

Ride the lightning!!!

I take your point on fielding Stormsmiths not just with Nemo. But would you recomend them to a new player in their first 500 points?

Cheers

James

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My TOEG- Blood Angels and Deathbolts
My Painting Blog- Evil Sunz, Goffs
My Epic trades list

Do you reckon? That was what I thought but I am less convinced,

Playing Cryx I found myself using 3 focus on the Charger. First point to boost to hit, second point for second shot and final point to boost to hit second shot. But then you are dependant on having good rolls with the Pow 12 damage rols. So I often found myself boosting damage roll for first hit.

So my experience is that you need to alloocate 2 or 3 focus each turn to the Charger when I could get more return out of using focus on other jacks or warcasters spells.

So the Charger is going to use up virtually all of Journeyman's focus each turn. When you need him cating spells.

Curipus how you found this worked in practice.

Cheers

James

_________________
My TOEG- Blood Angels and Deathbolts
My Painting Blog- Evil Sunz, Goffs
My Epic trades list

I dont know is Chargers biggest problem his own abilities, or that Hunter is better...

I would rather take one fully boosted shot from Hunter with 2 focus than two to-hit boosted shots from Charger with 3 focus. And when Junior can use that third focus to upkeep arcane shield. And Hunter can be controlled by Jr. from the distant, 12 inch? So Junnu (Finnish slang for junior) is not so easily shot (two stones at one bird, or how was it?).

_________________
Eradication of Earth's
Population loves Polaris

Stormsmiths are great at any point level, since, even at 500, there are a lot of models with Stealth or high DEF... Stormsmiths can tag them with relative ease... and no LOS required!

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Stormsmiths are actually great for a beginning player, as their attack doesn't need line of sight, and it's a *skill check*.  Roll under their magic stat, and you just dropped a pow10 lightning bolt on someone's head.  It's not a ranged attack, so Stealthed models, or models in cloud effects, are still hit by it.   High DEF warcasters are still hit on a 7-or-less on 2d6.  These guys aren't there to zap basic troops, although they can (widowmakers are my favorite troop target for these guys), they're supposed to zap solos and/or warcasters.  Mr. Pistol Wraith?  Meet mah friends, the bugzapper brothers!  You too, Mr Machine Wraith!  Lady Deneghra, have you met the 'zappers?

Stealth and incorporeality are real problems at low point games, and stormsmiths allow you to deal with them for 12 points each.  I strongly recommend fielding all 3, especially since they're single-wound models, but I've never had a problem with them making their points back every game (either VPs or army points).

generally, the Hunter is better if you're dealing with heavy Cryx, Khador, Trolls, or Skorne, while the Charger is better for light Cryx, Menoth, mercs, Legion, and pirates.  One of each is recommended if you're playing Circle.

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"For the Lion and the Emperor!"