Not allowing Garrrision wuld fit the Elysians. Is see them somewhat as the Eldar-style army (= Hit-and-Run) of the ImperialGuard.

_________________
We are returned!
http://www.epic-wargaming.de/

Unless the Elysians get Hit & Run (madness!) then just losing Garrison is punitive.

They already can't Garrison their Sentinels since they don't have Scouts, you can't Garrison a  mounted Drop Company, and an unmounted company has to choose to not Teleport in order to Garrison.

Simply moving the list org to make it so the whole army can't should suffice without needing rules.

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

Ok, just a quick update. I've made the changes to the list and will summarize below. I'm going to sit on these changes for a day or so and then post the contents for testing.

From memory:

1. The Drop Troop companies can be fielded in two primary ways

* 8 unit formation with 4 Valkyries
* 8+ unit formation that teleports in

There are also points reductions for the smaller formations

2. No formation can be fielded with more than 4 Valkyries, so the Valkyrie transport option for HVets, Mortars, and Support squads has been removed

3. Storm Troopers are the same, but are now support companies. There are no foot borne ST formations and I will keep them that way for the forseeable future

4. No Garrisoning with a fluff reason to support that decision

5. Lightnings with Autocannon, lascannon and the higher AA values are now two for 150 pts. For an additional +40 points, they can be upgraded to Lightning Strike Fighters. The formation size will be two going forward.

6. No restrictions on Commissars, they are the same as the standard SL IG list

7. Vultures range on their long range missiles reduced to 90 cm, to be consistent with the SL changes.

So, I think that's about it for this phase. Hopefully that will address the Valkyrie Barrage Bomb of Doom List that I didn't think of.

I will shoot for Wednesday or Thursday for a slightly more official posting.

Cheers,

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

For an additional +40 points

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

Scarik:  If you have upgrades to a transported formation, you have to be able to buy transports for them.  The choices are either just add them individually or coordinate all your upgrades so you point them in groups, e.g. making all your infantry upgrades 4 units so you can add 2 Valkyries for 75 points to transport them.

Valkyries are 4 for 150 in the Steel Legion.  That's 37.5 points, so 40 is the obvious rounding point.  I suppose you could make the argument that 50 (or 25) points each isn't too far off, but in a mounted army you might end up running into a noticeable point differential before it's over with.

_________________
Neal

Quit it with the 40 point chunks already, they are maddening.

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Argh, I always do that with STs... well at least the Elysians wont make me split the cost for Troops and Transport so I wont reverse the numbers.

Grr. >.>

So, 40 points each, how about 4 for 150 since you've just fiated that there can only be 4?

Or better yet 1 drop command + 7 drop troops + 4 Valkyries = 350?

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

@Scarik/Hena,

Ok, I understand your points, but this shouldn't be something that breaks the list. Your points are noted and we will revisit them after some testing has been done.

I say that for two reasons:

1. Keep in mind that this list is not operating in a vacuum. It will be compared to the standard IG list and any discrepancies where they are comparable, will need to be explained. If the same units always equal each other then there is no debate. That is my preference.

2. However, I'm not saying "no", just not now. Testing to the true value of the unit is more important at this stage. After we have some games in, then we will look at the results and if there is justification for adjusting point values, then we'll take a look at the issue. This kind of adjustment, if necessary, can be tacked on toward the latter stages of the effort.

Also, let's keep in mind our methodology. The list will arrive at a testing point and then we will play test the list and observe the results. Are there any significant flaws? If yes, then we will address those in a manner that does not take away from the intent of the list in as equitable fashion as possible. So, the key will be in addressing flaws through playtesting.

I want to hear your opinions, but this effort will not turn into a debate about opinions. I've seen too many list efforts get mired in debates over opinions and feelings and I respect everyone's time too much to allow us to go down that path.

So, we will proceed as is for now and log this as an issue to be dealt with at a later date.

Thanx for your efforts to date and in case you are wondering, I do plan to  playtest as well. Our Epic group turned to other pursuits (40K) for awhile or were dealing with Real Life ™. So I am rousing the sleeping bear. I do expect to be able to get a game in within the next week or so.

Cheers,

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Fair enough, one last clarification needed.

Does the HQ now consist of 1 SC Command +7 troops with the option for 4 Valkyries?

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

Does the HQ now consist of 1 SC Command +7 troops with the option for 4 Valkyries?

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

My next Elysian list: guessing at point values

500 Regimental HQ with Valkyries
350 Mechanized Drop Company
300 Teleporting Drop Company + Platoon

300 Vultures
350 Stormtroopers
125 Drop Sentinels
125 Drop Sentinels
125 Support Sentinels
125 Support Sentinels

150 Lightings
150 Lightings
190 Lighting Strikes
190 Lighting Strikes

2980 points 13 activations

I intend to teleport all the Sentinels into irritating positions and use the big Infantry company to go for the enemy blitz on turn 3 since it has no guns and I have 13 activations I hope to not need it until I can just win with speed.

With Everything capable of doubling for 70cm or Teleporting I will try to dominate Eldar Style save that my formations are big and don't need to cower in cover.

The Vultures will be my Alpha strike on the meanest AVs I can see and the Lightnings will come in to pick off the remains of any stragglers rather than acting in a major offensive roll. I'll try to save them til turn end or break formations to maintain Activation superiority.

The Traitors will never know what hit them when the Emperor's Hammer comes screaming out of the Heavens!

As an aside since we'll prolly get a few games in, what about switching Teleport for Planetfall and changing the Lunar Cruiser to a Dictator Cruiser (loses pin-point attack for transport)?

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

what about switching Teleport for Planetfall

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

1. It's what's in the SL list, therefore tested and approved

_________________
Fear is for the enemy, fear and bullets.
-James O'Barr, the Crow

Says the man who choose Lightnings over Thunderbolts, an alternate Marauder, 2 new types of Sentinel, and an all teleporting army.

_________________
Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment