This was only for an example how the stats could look like if we follow the lead of the Epic rulebook stats.
Personally i prefere WYSIWYG stats. This includes a change to the Rulebook Thunderbolt.

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PG lets turn it on its head.  Chaos game out first, created by GW and the ‘blade was given a single shot 30cm AP5+/AT6+/AA5+ shot to represent its “reaper cannonsâ€Â

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Tyranid air marshal

That is like saying that GW made the marines missile launcher range too short at 45cm and making the chaos marine's range 60cm.

It doesn't matter if 60cm is the "correct" range of a missile launcher.  A precedent has been set by GW that should be followed, regardless of sense.

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Tyranid air marshal

ragnarok got it

Personally i belive that there is a good reason behind the Epic Rulebook stats of every unit and that they follow some distinct pattern which new units should follow, too.
Either strictly the rulebook way or the WYSIWYG way.

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If the point cost was appropriate then why would they?

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

This is really a gigantic red herring.

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

Because their Aircraft isn't WYSIWYG.


Why? Do you think the Rulebook stats where only made in this way "because they fit somewhat"?

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Lets try in a different way

The 'blade is armed with a quad autocannon (AI stats) which is equal to 2 reaper auto cannons on a fighter mount so they get a bonus AA value.

Thus the 'blade has:

2x 30cm AT6+/AP4+/AA5+

The thunderbolt has a quad autocannon (so two twin atuocannons), twin linked las cannons and the option to take rockets or missiles on its wing hardpoints

Thus the bolt should have      but has

2x 30cm AT5+/AP4+/AA5+        1x 30cm AT6+/AP5+/AA5+
1x 30cm AT4+/AA5+                 1x 15cm AP4+/AA5+
1X 30cm AT5+                          1x 30cm AT4+

Now we can ignore the rockets and compare the guns:

blade
dual reaper 2x 30cm AT6+/AP4+/AA5+

bolt
1x 30cm AT6+/AP5+/AA5+
1x 15cm AP4+/AA5+

So the blade has:

Better AP ability, despite having the same amount of AP weapons
   2x 30cm AP4+ Vs 1x 30cm AP4+ & 1x 15cm AP4+

Better AT ability, despite haveing less AT weapons
   2x 30cm AT6+ Vs 1x 30cm AT6+

Better AA ability, despite having less AA weapons
   2x 30cm AA5+ Vs 1x 30cm AP5+ & 1x 15cm AP5+

the only advantage that the bolt has is its 6+ save, which isn't that good if it is being out ranged.

Now if the blades dual reapers were range 15 with the same stats then I think that the blades stats would be okay.  More chance to hit, but much shorter range.

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Tyranid air marshal

You can try but I don't see the relevance and don't see how the comparison is valid.

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

I think the two sides PG are
1) It doesn't matter what the stats are as long as its balanced points wise and list wise.
2) The stats should first reflect its power relative to other comparable units (in this case fighters), then you get the points level right.

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Don't think that I don't understand the point. That isn't the case.

I just think that we should focus on testing and getting #1 done and if that doesn't work then attempt #2.

We're a bit stuck. The weapon load for the aircraft already caused a minor sh*t storm when I initially attempted to simply it so it seems that no matter what approach is used it causes people to complain.

Do I need to mention the testing again? :-)

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

No. The two choices are:

a) Pull some stats out of the ass. Background? Wh40k abilities? Which background? What is Wh40k? The stats are balanced for Epic and work. Point.

b) Look at Wh40k. Convert the stats, weapons and the abilities it has according to fluff into Epic stats. Come up with an appropiate number of units in the formation and a balanced points cost.

I stronlgy prefere b)

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Which is what we already have done :-)

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

Yet my analysis shows that the blade is overpowered compared to the thunderbolt.

What is the justification for this extra level of power?

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Tyranid air marshal