I have a problem... No not that one and yes nothing ever turns out well that begins a sentence in this way.

What would you do in the following situation?..

You are approached by another member of the forum regarding items that they wish to trade.

Although you are not bothered about trading being a new member you wish to help a fellow player and so you both eventually agree on a fare trade of models.

You send the models as agreed. Both sides paying for the respective Air Mail for the items that they send.

You send notification that you have sent the requested items to them. However they do not send anything until after they have receive your items. (An insulting lack of trust on their part but so long as the items arrive who cares.)

Despite having the models you have sent with no problems or issues with them they do not post you on the Good Traders thread. Not even when you PM them and ask if there are any issues. They explain they would rather wait until you have received their items. Now on the surface this can be taken at face value but you could also be correct in thinking this person is holding back until they see what you post about them first. (Again an insulting lack of trust and remember they have your items with no problems while you have zip. But so long as you get your stuff who cares, right?)

So the big day arrives. You approach the front door expecting your parcel to find a ticket stating you owe a Customs/Postal charge of £12.46 (that's just under $25.00) After kicking the cat, shooting the budgie and flushing the fish you calm down and go directly to the post office.

You find that because the other person has grossly overvalued the item sent in the Customs Declaration at their end you have to pay the Government in order to get your item. (Let me make this clear. By gross I mean he valued the items sent at $50.00 for 120x plastic 6mm models. Now some may say this is a correct price. However I sent Tyranid infantry and we all know how much those are worth and I purposely kept the declared value down as I knew it would incur additional charges.) I have also successfully traded with another forum member for a larger quantity of models and they never incurred a Customs Charge in this way.

So you have your stuff but it's a bitter result. You could have paid GW for the same items easily and yes you would have paid some more to get the exact type of models you traded but you would still have had your Tyranids too and all the extra GW models that came on the same sprues.

Now what to do... Your stuck with it. Your the new guy. Do you just eat your bile and say nothing or do you do something about it. Yes, you can put a Bad Trader notice up but being the new guy wont you perhaps look unreasonable?

Sure people make mistakes but you know this persons has traded before and knows what they are doing. Remember they are an established forum member and also an experienced eBay trader too. Could it even be possible that this person did it on purpose just to take the mick. Oh, yes very funny. Perhaps you ticked them off during negotiation or they just don't think your right for the forum. Not one of the guys.

Who is this person?.. I will not say, yet, if ever. They will be PM'd again and I'll be looking for satisfaction in the form of money (or some such). Depending on their reply I will reconsider my options if any.

Ok so they (and you) may not care and this post has more of the cathartic to it than any tangible threat but what else can I do that will allow me to feel I have somehow done something about it. Perhaps I have been unwise in writing this post and will do more harm to how people regard me as it opens me to ridicule by others but sometimes you just feel compelled to do what you must in order to live with a bad situation even if it is just a bitter rant. You may even be sitting there laughing thinking what a whiner but that would be a short lived opinion were you ever to meet me in person I assure you.

But the question is what would you have done?..

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Could you clarify- did you just get charged a customs fee, or is it/also because he failed to put put the correct postage on the item?  

Most of what's gone on there would annoy me, but isn't a big problem with the trader in my opinion.    

Customs- I don't know the rules for this and I wouldn't expect foreigners to be aware of the rules, or changes to them.  Do you know how much the item has to be worth to incur charges?  I know I don't, nor is it very easy info to find.  Did he declare it as a gift?  In any case setting a real value for the items is the correct thing to do- if that causes problems, then it's a problem with the rules, not he sender.

Regards his holding back on posting on good traders- he's just following the eBay standard (though it might have changed recently) and you do need to recognise that alot of people get problems throughout that process. He could still have mentioned your sending stuff out correctly though (after all it's a editable post) but for convenience most people would probably wait until it's all finished.

Regards sending things after receiving theirs- when I did my 1st 2 trades on here with old well-regarded members [ooo-err Missus?] I offered to arrange things that way around.  Was a bit rude of them to accept- but sensible.

What would I do?  Check the customs charging rules 1st. Maybe post an annoyed thread of TacComms to release the tension and get 2nd opinions before thinking about naming him- that's a good idea  

I do sympathise by-the-way, just think you're a little too annoyed at the smaller issues, cos of the bigger- that customs charge.

About $50 is where customs bother about adding customs & VAT.
This is of course mainly between US and EU these days. Before EU went universal it was between most countries. Yeah I know, I'm totally dissing the rest of the world here.

Anyhow. Nothing to gripe about here. But for sure no GT notation. But your trading partner should still give you one. Albeit I have a hard time believing he'd be that gracious.

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

In most of what you have said loofnick I can understand and agree with. I thank you for your reply and reasonable manner. I also have no wish to name anyone. Perhaps this post at the moment is my only way that I am able to express myself and to some degree to make this person understand how I have been made to feel.

Postage was fine and it was only the Customs Fee that I was charged. However I do not blame the Customs for doing their job, rather I blame the trader for not doing his well enough. I have the Customs Charge rules plastered to the parcel. It states...

Goods purchased and imported into EU with a value of £18.00 or goods imported from one private person to another private person as a gift with a value over £36.00 are subject to Customs charges.

Now if he had sent it as a gift this situation would not have arisen as the price he chose to list would have been under the £36.00. But he sent it as Other and then declared it as a value of $50.00 that is exceeded this limit. I was nervous of making a mistake when I sent him and the other forum member stuff and so I asked and had this explained to me. This can not be a common occurrence as I would think very few members would trade if this was the way of doing things. Remember it was a small parcel costing only $1.40 to send.

The small issues about posting on the Good Trader thread etc are annoying but not of real importance. I included them to provide the whole story and picture.

I can understand why few people would reply to this thread as who would want to get mixed up in such a mess but for good or ill I must have my say. I do not hold anyone but the trader responsible and I do not regard the other members in the forum to be like this person.

Erik M I was just about to post when I noticed your reply. Cheers...

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

I think plenty of people have these sorts of problems.  Your manner seems fine to me.  TacComms seems a little quiet since the downtime anyway upto now. (only 24 views for this thread and plenty of about 5+ are mine).

I still suspect you'll find it's a case of an over-honest mistake (a trade is not a 'gift' and the value you said is about correct), or someone who's just not aware.  So, a question- who should pay for Customs- argubly not postage (his agreed cost), but related to, and a cost because of his actions.  Hope it sorts out for you.

There are, as I see it, two issues here. Firstly, that the other person did not send your goods right away and waited for yours to arrive first. Secondly, that the declaration of value was higher than you thought was reasonable.

Firstly, the waiting to send issue. This is difficult. You state that you are the new member and that they have conducted successful trades in the past with others. They may well have had bad experiences with trading in general in the past that has made them more cautious. In the end, you did get your items, and they seem to have been fine. Is it irritating to wait the extra time? Yes. However, this does happen and in general I think that any trader should be aware that there is often a delay in conducting business in this way.

With regards to the excess value declaration, this may be a difference of opinion. To play devils advocate for a second, Epic items are sometimes out of production and value can be difficult to judge. Your comments imply that the items are currently available from GW, so the difference in value does seem strange considering that there is an established source to value them. If the items are out of production then this is difference. Let me put it this way, if the package had gone missing, then it would have been valued at the higher price and this would be a different discussion.

If this was me, I guess that I would not be wildly happy with the experience, but I did get the items that I wanted and they appear all correct and as described. Yes, the charge was higher than I imagined, but I often order from the US and suffer the same problem. I would consider this a successful trade, and probably post a positive trade note with the note that the package was valued to require extra cost.

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https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond.
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These are all well considered and reasonable points however I can't help but wonder what would be the situation if I, being the new member had cost the other party to pay an extra £12.46 (approx $25.00) what would he have done? Or to put it another way what would have happened if I had cost you a Customs Charge due to my mistake. I find it hard to believe that you would happy or not do nothing. I suspect we have all (including me) had bad experiences with traders from time to time (mine was on eBay) but I would imagine this not to be the tolerated norm. I can also tell you if I had caused such a charge I would as a man feel responsible and attempt to make some sort of amends.

The items I was sent were Chaos infantry minis
60x Cultists, 30x Noise Marines and Berserkers. They are currently available and it would have been easier to buy directly from GW as I have done before. I have already mentioned my reasons for trading with this person previously and I do not think these reasons to be in error, even now.

Do you honestly think these models are worth more than £36.00 in regards to a lost item claim? It seems to me that this is another case of the other trader hedging his bets in an attempt to claim more than the parcel contents are worth should something go wrong.

Perhaps if nothing else this highlights a problem with the system used and serves as a warning that you could end up with an unfair hidden surcharge for what seems like a fair trade if the other trader makes a mess of things.

I have PM'd the other person with these details and will await some form of reply. Obviously I'll give it until next week as they may be away over the weekend before reconsidering my position.

However I thank everyone who has expressed there opinion here and feel that at the very least I am getting some of the bad feelings out of my system which to me has made this a worthwhile exercise.

On a lighter and not at all serious note my wife thinks he's an utter B******d and was all for getting on a plane and paying him a visit to exchange... ideas on the matter.

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

Jim, might not want to name me but now that he's made this public I'd rather deal with it here then through PMs. The following is the PM I was going to send:

There are a couple of things I want to address, the first is can you explain how you got charged at all for this? I've sent over a dozen packages to the UK and I have never heard of a person getting charged to pick up an item. How did this happen?

The second is regards to when I sent the item. I sent it on Wednesday the 2nd if you look at the postmark date. It was the first chance I had to get to the post office and it was definitely before I received your package (which was this past week). I'll grant you that I wasn't able to tell you I sent it until last Monday but this past weekend was a holiday in the states and I didn't have access to the internet. I'm not sure why you think I waited until I received my items to ship yours out but this wasn't the case. I trust people enough to cross ship with them.

As to me not posting on the good trader thread before you received your items, that's just how I operate on Batertown and eBay and I carry it over to here.  I'm sorry you don't like it but I'd rather deal with stuff like this off line before feedback is left. I'm telling you now that I intended no lack of trust in you, you can take it however you like but as I said before my lack of trust is in the postal system, not you.

As to the value I put on the package I don't think it was grossly overvalued given eBay/ChaosOrc prices: $15 for the Beserkers, $15 for the Noise Marines and $20 for the Cultists. I had no idea you were going to get charged for the cost I associated to these, really I've never heard of this up until now. Irregardless however, I would still rather mark the value correctly then underrate it. You mentioned marking it as a gift, I had no idea about that will that still cover up to a certain value without custom charges?

I'm sorry you got charge the extra amount, but it was really out of my ignorance that this happened and not because I was trying to **** you over.  I'm willing to send you half of the custom charge via PayPal, did you keep the receipt.

I'm sorry your experience didn't go better but as I said I didn't mean for you to get charged, I was doing what I thought was right to cover myself in case the items were lost.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

I'd fill in the traders thread but highlight the high cost to yourself. Of course I normally entirely forget to fill in the traders thread (not to mention be several weeks behind hunting through my collection for stuff! Best way to trade is just come round to my house or meet me at a club I reckon!)

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I cannot speak to the situation but I can speak to Dave's character, which is excellent.  If he has tried to screw somebody, it will be the first I've heard of it.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Hi Hena,

I am glad you seem to understand what has happened regards the Customs charge and your point about the threads not being a useful way to gauge Good/Bad traders I realise is true. I can not think of a better way to oversee trades but will keep this point in mind if I Trade in the future.

Dave,

I previously outlined how I was charged for Custom as it says on Customs sticker on the parcel that 'Goods purchased and imported into the EU with a value over £18.00 or goods imported from one private person to another private person as a gift with a value over £36.00 are subject to Customs charges. I think if you had marked on the Customs Declaration ticket (stuck to the parcel) that it was a [/B]'gift' you would have been able to value it up to £36.00 (about $72.00) however because you had marked on the ticket that it was [B]'Other' the Customs people have classed the item as 'Goods Purchased and Imported' not as a gift from one 'Private person to another private person.' I know this gets very confusing but hope that I have made it a little clearer.

With regards to when you sent the item. After checking the post date I found you are quite correct in fact you sent the item five days before I sent mine so I am quite wrong in that regard and do apologise for my mistake.

I'm sorry you got charge the extra amount, but it was really out of my ignorance that this happened and not because I was trying to **** you over.  I'm willing to send you half of the custom charge via PayPal, did you keep the receipt.

I'm sorry your experience didn't go better but as I said I didn't mean for you to get charged, I was doing what I thought was right to cover myself in case the items were lost

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My head is full of War...

[img]http://i278.photobucket.com/albums/kk120/Warhead40k/Tyranid%20Swarm/DSC02262.jpg[/img]

I'm sorry Chris but I'm just not that kind of guy! Besides if I was I think I could do better.  

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

I'm glad things worked out. I can speak with certainty that Dave was not out to screw you. Unfortuanately, you're not able to trade with Dave in person, as I'm able to do. All of our trades have been flawless.

This is a lesson learned for me. I had no idea what the customs policy is for the EU. Now I know, mark everythying as "gift."

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

I didn't mark any of the Raiders packages as GIFT (except for the ones that really were gifts from me).  I marked them as OTHER and then wrote in NON PROFIT.  Unfortunately I don't think you could have claimed the package was non-profit, Dave, but it is interesting that had I not done that I would have a LOT of unhappy people in the UK.  Good to know for the future!

I guess something positive came out of this thread after all!

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.