Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 3
  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 2:55 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

(Evil and Chaos @ Jun. 22 2008,12:14)
QUOTE
I've no idea why you should be looking down upon this.

You realise Warhammer 40,000 is a game for kids, right?

Why? Typically in my experience that sort of precision being introduced into a game is bad news. It encourages argument, gamey positioning and detracts from the flow of the game.

I think its a sad state of affairs if a couple of 14 year olds can't decide about LOS without getting laser pointer pens out.

Especially when 40k seems to have a when in doubt have a save mentality now.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
haywire
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 3:35 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 1:24 am
Posts: 6
Location: Milford, MA
For games like 40k I think its overkill because you are targetting a squad.

When I was playing Necromunda it was a godsend with all those catwalks and other crap in the way...
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Chaplain Leviticus
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:01 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:07 am
Posts: 888
Location: Gulf Coast, Texas
Should I stop using my LOS checker then?



"Excuse me while I check LOS.  I believe have it, don't you?"

_________________
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
pixelgeek
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:21 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 8:10 pm
Posts: 2642
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

(haywire @ Jun. 22 2008,07:35)
QUOTE
For games like 40k I think its overkill because you are targetting a squad.

5th Edition has new LOS rules

_________________
Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
ragnarok
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:23 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 2:43 pm
Posts: 2084
Location: Reading, England

(Chaplain Leviticus @ Jun. 22 2008,16:01)
QUOTE
Should I stop using my LOS checker then?

I prefer your version to GWs.  You can use it to remove the kills as well.  :blues:  :D

_________________
Tyranid air marshal
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
pixelgeek
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:27 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 8:10 pm
Posts: 2642
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

(The_Real_Chris @ Jun. 22 2008,06:55)
QUOTE
I think its a sad state of affairs if a couple of 14 year olds can't decide about LOS without getting laser pointer pens out.

I think its a sad state of affairs when people start commenting on an issue when they clearly don't appear to understand the rules changes and terrain interactions in the new edition that will make this sort of thing useful

Want to determine if your Marine Missile Trooper can see through the window and doorway of two terrain pieces to shoot at a target? No need to guess now.

40K is littered with Cities of Death, or similar, terrain that used to be area terrain and now isn't. It all has doorways, windows, half walls etc that people can now shoot through.

This will actually be handy if you have that sort of terrain around

_________________
Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 4:54 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA
Meh... I've been using a laser pointer for years. Handy if it's hard to get a model's-eye-view due to cluttered terrain or if you can't be bothered to bend down. I use a laser-level that draws a red line across the board.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
CyberShadow
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:43 pm 
Swarm Tyrant
Swarm Tyrant
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9350
Location: Singapore
If it stops arguments about 'my guy can see your guy' then I think that this is a good thing. There are comments about increasing the strength and melting your enemies!   :p

I remain suspicious about the LOS/targeting rules of 5th Ed, but that is not necessarily a feature of the laser pointer itself. I have also heard that this is a very weak level laser rather than an LED. I have a laser pointer for games as well, but the rules dont require it.

_________________
https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond.
https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
pixelgeek
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:45 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 16, 2003 8:10 pm
Posts: 2642
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

(Lord Inquisitor @ Jun. 22 2008,08:54)
QUOTE
I use a laser-level that draws a red line across the board.

Different type of LOS interactions in the new 40K so that sort of level isn't as useful in the game. You need something that can get a model's eye view of the LOS.

The markerlight has a small hook that fits over the model's head

_________________
Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:49 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA
I don't think the 5th ed rules require you to use a games workshop laser pointer ?... they've just figured out how much of a market there is for accessories. For example, GW is very belatedly realising that there are a couple of companies making gorgeous-looking counters for Warhammer and 40K (and directly making money off GW's success) and finally releasing a counter set for 40K.


(pixelgeek @ Jun. 22 2008,12:45)
QUOTE
[quote="Lord Inquisitor,Jun. 22 2008,08:54"]Different type of LOS interactions in the new 40K so that sort of level isn't as useful in the game. You need something that can get a model's eye view of the LOS.

Oh, it produces a red dot on the target too, so it'll still work fine. The level is just really useful for marking out the deployment zone, mostly.

The markerlight has a small hook that fits over the model's head

Oh, that's what that's for! Heh, never realised that. Cute.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
vanvlak
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 5:57 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Oct 31, 2003 7:52 am
Posts: 10348
Location: Malta
It's not a beam, it's a dot.

Even a laser won't produce a beam unless you're in a smokey room.

The beam is there, producing the dot on a surface at the end - just can't be seen, except in smoke, mist etc. as you rightly pointed out. An LED couldn't do that.
Class 2 isn't too terrible, but I hate the standard description of risk: loosely quoting: a class 2 laser is dangerous to the eye if pointed at it for 1 second or more; as the blink reflex is 0.1s, that is not a problem.
Don't like it one bit!

_________________
Back from oblivion (again)?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:15 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London

(pixelgeek @ Jun. 22 2008,16:27)
QUOTE
I think its a sad state of affairs when people start commenting on an issue when they clearly don't appear to understand the rules changes and terrain interactions in the new edition that will make this sort of thing useful

Want to determine if your Marine Missile Trooper can see through the window and doorway of two terrain pieces to shoot at a target? No need to guess now.

I do actually know that in the new edition if you can at all possibly see the target you get to shoot and it gets a 4+ cover save. (Incidentally I image all the dice rolling will be a lot like CS's beloved reaction rolls in ASC!)

As the margin of doubt is so large in favour of shooting the intent is clearly to take the shot and get on with the game. Not deploy the laser pointers and fidget the models.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Chaplain Leviticus
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:39 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2007 1:07 am
Posts: 888
Location: Gulf Coast, Texas
Using a laser pointer can be handy but I can see it now: "If I can see your mini with the laser I can shoot it." ?No matter if it is shooting through the legs of another mini or two, through three windows, peeking through a space in the rubble, etc... ?yeah, it will get real stupid with no common sense applied.




_________________
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Erik M
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 6:54 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
Thank you Chaplain Leviticus, I think you nailed it there.
The first thing I thought when I heard about TLOS was "Totally LOSt it."
Going from "area terrain" is about the worst they can do in a game with the high level of competivness 40k of today has.




_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Ye Gods, is it bad news when a game needs this?!!!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 22, 2008 7:24 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 1216
Location: Norfolk VA USA
Meh, area terrain had plenty of issues, and tracing LOS over and around area terrain was a pain, and often utterly rediculous. This is the sort of thing you'd see:

http://www.geocities.com/lordinquisitor/areaterrain.bmp

I think the game will be better for TLOS. Abstraction only aids in making watertight tournament rules, but after much consideration, I'd much rather have a set of rules that let me shoot that rhino I can blatantly see, thank you very much. Otherwise I can play chess.

I have a similar concern about laser pointers. I've had bad experiences in the past with people drawing "impossible" shots by virtue of the laser making it through. But we'll have to see what the rulebook says about TLOS. I don't think we'll have as many problems as people seem to think. Most of the time it'll be obvious.

But the laser will still be a useful tool. Precision is no bad thing - the "margin of doubt" argument could apply to charge ranges. Why bother measuring? Most of the time it's obvious!
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
  Print view Previous topic | Next topic 
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 3
  [ 41 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 39 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net