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Chaos Aircraft
Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:56 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ May 26 2008,16:18)
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Hmmm......ok the stats look good. I'm not really hapy with giving the Hell Blade Reaper Autocannons. I mean...come on...if you have the ressources to put a long ranged weapon on an interceptor...why would you use a short ranged one?

Again, the same argument could be applied to the Defiler. Who knows what the reason could be?

If you think 2 x 45cm AP4+/AT5+/AA5+ is too good then make it a Quad Autocannon with 45cm AP3+/AT4+/AA4+.

Weapon range is a serious matter on interceptors. I'm much more concerned about the range than the power of the attack per se.

The reason for this is because aircraft that are being intercepted usually have short-ranged guns. 30cm or (more usually) 15cm defensive weapons.
  • If a fighter has 15cm weapons, then it must come into defensive flack range
  • If a fighter has 30cm weapons it can usually stay out of 360-degree weapon range but needs to stay out of the primary weapons' arc.
  • If a fighter has >30cm weapons, it can attack virtually anything from any angle with no risk of receiving return fire.

    Neither aircraft can reasonably have any AA weapons with ranges over 30cm.

    You yourself even commented on the stats!Yeah, okay, I'm stupid. ?:glare: ?I think we've established that already! ?:D

    I have to ask why only 1BP on the Helltalon. ?And what happened to the Ignor Cover on the incendry bombs that it carried?
    As noted, it does have IC...

    A better question would be why should it have more than 1BP? In a formation of 2, that'd be 4BP, which is enough for two templates. That's starting to feel like a whole lotta bang for just two aircraft after you add in the other weapons too.

    It is a fighter-bomber, after all. I think 2BP each is too much.





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    Evil and Chaos
     Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
    PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 9:58 pm 
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    It is a fighter-bomber, after all. I think 2BP each is too much.


    I agree with that now.

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    BlackLegion
     Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
    PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:15 pm 
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    On aircraft/flak ranges: This is a flaw in the design behind this all in the first place. All the ranges are to short inthe rulebookand now, as we design new aurcrafts the weapons stats don't match. It doens't help that the weapons loadout of the rulebook aircrafts are seldom wysiwyg.

    See attachment for wysiwyg Aircrafts.




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    The_Real_Chris
     Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
    PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:30 pm 
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    2 reapers are 30cm AP4+/AT6+ each
    Twin reapers are AP3+/AT5+ (I prefer the latter for a whole variety of reasons you get tomorrow!)

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    BlackLegion
     Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
    PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:37 pm 
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    Oh yes. And the AA value of Twin Reapers would be AA3+ if you follow the rulebook conventions.

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    Lord Inquisitor
     Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
    PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:43 pm 
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    BL: I know what you're saying. I've had a look at your file, and while there's a few oddities in there, I think I'd support that sort of change. That's a big deal though! You're going to need to get all of the army champions on board at once for a big aircraft review.

    TRC: Ah, forgot that Reapers are only AT6+. So they should be AP4+/AT6+/AA5+. Twin reaper autocannon at AP3+/AT5+/AA4+? That'd be a 3+ per aircraft including the +1...
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    Ginger
     Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
    PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:57 pm 
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    I thought the general convertion was that airborne weapons lose range on their ground equivalents - so why not just drop the 45cms range to 30cms on the Hell Talon (which also gets rid of the "OR").

    We have had a significant discussion on the Tau AX-10 Tigershark on exactly the same subject - essentially that if you have a range that exceeds the ground-based AA, it automatically makes the aircraft too powerfull - especially if you give the formation more than one such shot.

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    zombocom
     Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
    PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:19 pm 
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    Yup, call it a "snub barreled twin reaper autocannon" or something, and make all the ranges 30cm to get rid of the OR.

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    BlackLegion
     Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
    PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 11:20 pm 
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    @LordInquisitor: Hmmm perhabs i SHOULD call all army champions for this? :D

    re Reaper: If an AA-capable weapons has an AP and an AT value then the AA value is allways identical to the AP value. So if you put a Twin Reaper on the Hell Blade it has a single AP3+/AT5+/AA3+ shot...this would be AA2+ on Intercept and CAP!

    @Ginger: Problem here is the precedence of the Twin Lascannon on the Marauder which has a 45cm range.

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    BlackLegion
     Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
    PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:11 am 
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    No problem Hena. Until then i can wait :)

    So if we follow the nerf of aircrafts as in the rulebook and scrap wysiwyg i propose the following weapons for the Hell Blade:

    Combi Bolters 15cm AP4+/AA5+

    With this you canhave dead cheap aircraft (remember: no armour save for Hell Blades)for AA purposes. So we could possibly forsake the AA on Obliterators?




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    Evil and Chaos
     Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
    PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:13 am 
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    Keep the name correct, downgrade the range.

    I think that's the fourth time I've said it, and it's still the correct thing to do.

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    The_Real_Chris
     Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
    PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:38 am 
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    re Reaper: If an AA-capable weapons has an AP and an AT value then the AA value is allways identical to the AP value. So if you put a Twin Reaper on the Hell Blade it has a single AP3+/AT5+/AA3+ shot...this would be AA2+ on Intercept and CAP!


    Thats actually quite wrong, its always the same as the AT. Witness Hydra, blitzen, hunter etc.

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    BlackLegion
     Post subject: Chaos Aircraft
    PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:51 am 
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    Not on Aircrafts. See the Thunderbolts Multilaser. It's the same as the AT value only if it doesn't has an AP-value.

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