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[NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:43 pm 
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(Chroma @ May 11 2008,12:59)
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(Evil and Chaos @ May 11 2008,12:54)
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I believe Pulsar has played these with CC2+ at least half a dozen times now.

And...   :D

He's played them against me in at least two games (Perhaps more, sometimes I kill his aspects before they hit me :D )... I think they're fine.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:46 pm 
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(Dave @ May 11 2008,14:39)
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Does this mean the Falcon and Fireprism Troupes disappear? ?Or are you leaving them in for backwards compatibility.

They would probably "disappear".  The Falcon Troupe can already be represented by the Swords of Vaul.

As to AA in the Nightspinner Troupe; they never had it before and it wasn't really a problem, allowing them to get Fire Storms just made for a relatively cheap and zippy AA formation, which the Eldar don't really need.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:47 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ May 11 2008,14:43)
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He's played them against me in at least two games (Perhaps more, sometimes I kill his aspects before they hit me :D )... I think they're fine.

But does he, as the Eldar player, think they're fine?  *laugh*

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 2:48 pm 
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Only time (And Pulsar) can tell.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:32 pm 
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(Chroma @ May 11 2008,14:47)
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(Evil and Chaos @ May 11 2008,14:43)
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He's played them against me in at least two games (Perhaps more, sometimes I kill his aspects before they hit me :D )... I think they're fine.

But does he, as the Eldar player, think they're fine? ?*laugh*

the +2 first strike on the banshees makes them worth taking, before the change they were never worth it because the had no real punch and with a +5 armour save they would die without doing much, it was a no-brainer to take scorpions insted.

with the +2 they do some nice damage, they still die, but not quite as fast.

i tend to use them in a formation with 4 banshee stands and 4 fire dragon stands and put them in a vampire, the banshees take out the front of the enemy unit and the fire dragons do the damage.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Sun May 11, 2008 11:39 pm 
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sorry forgot to add i've used the new stats about 15 -20 times and they work well




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Chroma
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:31 am 
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(Pulsar @ May 11 2008,23:39)
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sorry forgot to add i've used the new stats about 15 -20 times and they work well

Thanks for the input, Pulsar!

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Ginger
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:33 am 
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(Pulsar @ May 11 2008,23:39)
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sorry forgot to add i've used the new stats about 15 -20 times and they work well

Against which target formations??

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Pulsar
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 1:07 am 
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(Ginger @ May 12 2008,00:33)
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(Pulsar @ May 11 2008,23:39)
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sorry forgot to add i've used the new stats about 15 -20 times and they work well

Against which target formations??

my main opponets are necrons, guard, and titans but i've also used them against chaos twice, space marines once, tau ?three times and orks once.

i find that when they are paired up with fire dragons as i said before, the banshees are used to take out the troops most players use to protect the best stands in the formation so the fire dragons can use the MW attack to do the most damage, its a fraglie formation so it's normaly is a sucide mission.

against necrons i use them as a counter-strike force, when he brings out his largest phalanx, normaly the BTS goal the vampire swoops in and ingauges.

i can't remember which formations i specifically used them against for the most part, but most of the time i used them?to take on stuff that is going damage my army if i leave i till later, thats very rarely the toughest thing my opponent has it but it'll be a i need to take out early in the game.

hope that answers your question.




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Ginger
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 2:37 am 
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Partially - the main question is really whether they have been used more by design against AV targets or infantry Targets, and whether you felt you got the results you expected from them on average.

Your comment about being a "suicide" mission is very interesting - it implies that you do not expect the HBs to kill enough enemy to survive. This is also borne out by the "interesting" ad mix with Fire Dragons, which has two impacts:-
1) Limiting the First Strike means that the HBs will get a good number of hits back, and will suffer 2.6 dead on average (ie they are a one-off strike force).
2) Because of the HBs First Strike capabilities, you have to position the Fire Dragons closer to the enemy to ensure they have a legitimate target. This in turn will put the FireDragons under more return fire, potentially risking the Exarchs (usually placed in the rear for safety)

Have you tried all HB formations? If so, with what results?

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 5:44 pm 
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(Chroma @ May 09 2008,13:53)
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2. Suggested changes
Wave Serpents ? add Heavy Weapon Platform to transport options

I like all the changes except this one.

I realize "This is not 40K" ? - but platforms aren't allowed to do this in 40k, so why should they here?

I think that this change would make a mechanized gaurdian formation a bit more attractive, but I think we should stick with the limitations imposed by the background.
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Chroma
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:01 pm 
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(semajnollissor @ May 12 2008,17:44)
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I realize "This is not 40K" ? - but platforms aren't allowed to do this in 40k, so why should they here?

Actually, they *are* allowed in Wave Serpents in 40k, as a Heavy Weapon Platform is mandatory for a Guardian Squad these days!

I'm not willing to make them mandatory, *laugh*, but a 40k player coming to Epic and not being able to do something "normal" like that will be disappointed... as well, I've got no problem making the Mechanized Guardian Warhost more attractive.

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 7:30 pm 
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(Chroma @ May 12 2008,12:01)
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... Actually, they *are* allowed in Wave Serpents in 40k ...

Okay, this bothered me enough to go and check. By the 4th Ed. Eldar Codex, with the rules as written, I guess platforms can be transported in wave serpents (though they don't take up any transport slots, since they are only "markers" ).

So, okay then, all your changes look good.

Of course, I'm a bit biased since I made all my purchases based on the inclusions of these changes.
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Pulsar
 Post subject: [NetEA] Biel-Tan/Eldar change list
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:17 pm 
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(Ginger @ May 12 2008,02:37)
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Have you tried all HB formations? If so, with what results?

yes i have tried an all HB formation but only once (due to only having 6 stands), they worked ok but because of them only having a 5cm disembark move from the vampire i could only get 5-6 in base contact and therefore some of the first strikes were wasted, the game was against tau,  HB went for a fire warrior formation and i think they only lost 1 or 2 stands, that was the last acivation of the turn and i then won the initiative in the next turn and they engaged a battle suit formation as my first activation with support fire from a guardian formation the HB had 2 bases left after armour saves but the Guardins and wraithguard did the job.


so in the one game i used  them they were very useful but thats just one game.

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