That?s definitely a new perspective on a couple of things. Thanks for sharing!
Let?s see...
(okpjay890 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:51)
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1) Daemon Prince :
It is found that the daemon prince is too powerful compared to its cost and it is not quite the aura that can generate the troops that accompanies it.
It therefore lost its attacks killers titan for simple macro weapons and is adding Charismatic capacity.
New profile:
Infantry Movement / 15 or 30cm / Shield 3 + or 4 + / CC 3 + / + FF3
Weapon possession (contact) additional Attacks (2) Macro Weapon
Explosion Warp (15cm) Attacks additional (1) Macro Weapon
Notes: Commander, Leader, Fearless, Teleport, renforced armour, Charismatic. If it is taken as a replacement for Lord of War, it also counts as Supreme Commander.
Others have disliked TK attacks on an infantry model as well. I?m not sold on the idea as I believe BL is underequipped in the TK department anyway and has moderate troubles dealing with large amounts of 4+RA armour and/or War Engines. This is aggravated by the difficulties of reliably summoning a Bloodthirster and the inferiority of the Ravager?s Doomburner, which you have adressed.
Adding "Inspiring" (I guess that?s "Charismatic") is an excellent compromise though.
(okpjay890 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:51)
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3) Land Raider:
His FF increase to 4 + cohesion to comply with its loyalist version.
4) Predator:
His passes 5 + renforced armour in order to comply with its cohesion and its version loyalist. Increase FF from 5+ to FF 4 + ?cause 5+ is considered too low when it has 2 heavy bolters.
The FF increase is a given, but I?m not so sure on the Predator armour change. Going to 5+RA on the Pred was hotly debated. As you wrote in the SM thread, the difference is marginal ... except vs. MW hits.
(okpjay890 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:51)
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5) Defiler:
The Defiler is a unit whose use is too parasitized exaggerated by the versatility of the latter.
He sees his arms more focused anti infantry and sees the shoot-off switch and indirect fire from his cannon Defiler disappear tend to make formations that the reception too static. Its cost is kept because the Dreadnought would be even more neglected can fight cost equal compared to the armament of Defiler.
New Profile:
Armoured / Speed 15cm / Shield 4 + / CC4 + / + FF3
Canon scroll 75cm AP4 + / + AC4
Twin linked Reapers 30cm AP3 + / + AC5
heavy flammer ?15cm AP4 + Ignore covered
And (15cm) Small arms additional Attack (1) Ignore covered
Griffes fighter (contact) assault weapons, extra Attack (+1), Macro weapon
Notes: Fearless, invulnerable save, Walker.
That?s pretty much what I?d expect to be accepted, though possibly a speed increase to 20cm or the "Infiltrator" ability might help to focus it in a close support role. I?d prefer "Infiltrator" as this would allow Defilers in garrisons.
(okpjay890 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:51)
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6) Dreadnought:
The Dreadnought loyalist is now also fearless most is benefiting from the ability "They do not know fear" and Defiler most powerfully armed and firing tight phases assault:
The Dreadnought Chaos cost 40pts ?now rather than 50pts. This is helping to make it more attractive and striking even more significant difference between the units mentioned above.
They got "Fearless" in the current list and I think that this is sufficient. With a changed Defiler, one could add 6 Fearless Walker Armoured Vehicles to a garrisoned Retinue, which should be nasty (you can do that now, but will be shooting the Defilers indirect all the time and mostly waste the Dreads)
(okpjay890 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:51)
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7) Decimator:
It is found that there is no justification for such a disparity in the value D?cimator between CC and his counterparts from heavy armoured vehicles of the Guard. For this reason its CC decrease from 4 + to 5 +. His FF is at the same time increased by one point in view of the impressive quantity of mowers matched equipping the unit. His shooting has therefore risen from 4 + to 3 +. Its cost is also revised upwards by 25pts to balance the power of the engine in assault.
8) Deathwheel:
It turned out that the vision of a player Deathwheel longer corresponds to a machine of war and toppling happily mowing all infantry or armored vehicles in a wild and dizzying speed. In addition to his shooting 3 + is not really the amount of reapers (they aren't twin linked). It is considered that for many this war engine is interesting that in the assault, remaining a shooting platform rather tense average (which reinforces the idea of lowering its FF).
For these reasons his the increase from CC5+ to CC 4 + ?and the FF cecrease from 3+ to 4+ and its cost is lowered to 25pts.
Notes: In short, the amendments 7 and 8 back to share the characteristics CC, and FF between Deathwheel and D?cimator. Costs modified also contribute to a homogenization and balance between these two war engine.
I?ve commented on the Decimator elsewhere. Good reasoning on the Death Wheel though, you have a point on the CC/FF issue. It never occured to me that maybe FF3+ might be a bit goodish considering it?s armament, which is indeed nothing too fancy when shooting.
(okpjay890 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:51)
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9) Berserkers of Khorne:
Peoples admiting that the Berserks of Khorne are worse off with a slight chance of being CC.
That is why the ability Infiltrator their allowed to ensure they have the contact in CC.
I argued that way a long time ago when the Cult Marine stats were finalised, it wasn?t accepted as the power gap between the profiles wasn?t seen as that large. It was recognized though that Berzerkers are the weakest choice of the Cults.
(okpjay890 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:51)
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10) Daemons minors:
To promote the lists including minors demons, it is proposed to decrease the cost of demons minors from 20pts to 15pts.
There are plenty of players using them as far as I can tell. Without going for the stats, as you have done, this would seem a bad idea.
(okpjay890 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:51)
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13) Icon bearer, daemonic pact:
To mitigate the rigidity imposed by the limitation of improvements for the updates of the Black Legion wishing to include an invocation of demons minors or Greats daemons.
It is set up the creation a combo of icon bearer + demonic pact for 75pts. However, the demonic pact is kept for 25pts.
Great idea.
(okpjay890 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:51)
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14) Greats Demons:
Faced with the difficulty and investment necessary for the invocation of a great demon, it was decided to lower its cost from 100pts to 75pts.
I?d rather lower the necessary summoning points to 7 as the problem is not pricing but the randomness of the summoning roll. Using 4D3, a 7 should work most of the time.
(okpjay890 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:51)
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15) Banelord:
Its cost increased from 800 to 850pts.
It?s not on par with an Imperial Warlord Titan firepower-wise. That was the reason dor the decrease.
Also, I haven?t heard any criticism of it?s pricing while a lot of controversy has been associated with the BL list. ?
(okpjay890 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:51)
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16) Ravager:
The Doomburner is considered a bit low an?doctical see a titan of Class Ravager. His profile is changed to allow it the opportunity to pursue more effective war engines.
New Profile:
Doomburner 60cm MA3 +, TK (1D3).
I suggested the same stats in the CSM review thread. Glad you french have come to the same conclusion!
(okpjay890 @ Mar. 22 2008,12:51)
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We are exploring the possibility of eliminating AA ability of the obliterators to create a rhino upgrade ?to give them a 0-2 rack havoc missile 45cm AP5 + / AT5 + / + AA5 by retinue who cost 25pts each.
Like as usual any comments are welcomes.
Jay
Such solutions to the AA/Oblit problem have been discussed before, but they weren?t very well received as this would need a new model (or rather, require players to do some conversion work) and be something of a crutch that has no basis in 40k rules or background.
The latter pretty much sank the idea in pixelgeek?s eyes IIRC, and he?s the army champion and the man you gotta convince.
