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Rules Review Blog
nealhunt
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:09 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Mar. 05 2008,21:25)
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Should I even bother asking about the ERC stuff or should I just shut up and be pleased that we're getting anything?

I'd say that this is for practical purposes, all there will be.  Andy has shown himself willing to update vault documents and we can continue to work on those lists but I wouldn't expect anything else to become official.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 11:16 pm 
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(Soren @ Mar. 05 2008,20:13)
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@Markonz: But it?s moving. That?s more than we have expected. And things that move are not so easily stopped. :)

Well it may be more than you were expecting, but I was expecting it. I predicted it in this thread over a month ago:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....y238799

I believe this is still an improvement over where things were at before the petition organised by Moscovian.  At least Jervis has reviewed the Change Documents - and even said he'd be happy to put them through, though he has expressed some caution about doing so. Given that he probably has no funding from GW, and little time, he has at first instance fallen back on trusty lieutenants from years ago. Some of these are out of touch or have quit. Nonetheless it is an understandable first move by him, and at least he is willing to engage with the Change Documents and what's left of the ERC. Also I don't actually see Jervis continuing to let community frustration increase forever if he is aware of it. I believe he will make a decision on some changes, though it may be slower than we like, and take more effort than we would like.

Everything else I have said in my comments (and Gingers) still applies in my opinion. The issues I outlined in this thread still need addressing:
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....t=11283

My point is that even if this first objective has been attained as planned, we should remember it takes more than one objective to win a game  of epic...   Keep the big picture in mind. Movement can be easily stopped and experience with epic history proves it. Jervis is likely to update these rules on the basis of our hard work and then disappear again.

At the very least I'd say we want the additional objective of a rules review process secured.  I'm not optimistic about  this happening.

For extra impressive victory we would need mini ranges finished and new ones released...


Also - I'm concerned about the price of these victories for those of us most intimately involved in them. It's wearing, there are other companies out there eager to court our geekiness, and they are more willing to put out...  :;): Many good people have already moved on. I've already said I'm cutting back my own investment in this endeavour, though I'll stay in a supportive role with Handbook updates etc.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:47 am 
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Good news. But i'm a bit concerned what Jervis final decisions will be.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:50 am 
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(Hena @ Mar. 06 2008,05:27)
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The thing is that if SG manages to actually update the official rules, then some splitting won't happen. UK tournament scene will follow the rules that are posted to SG rules section. So as far as I'm concerned that is a very good thing. So I'm interested to see what happens on that front.

So what's your point? I acknowledged it's a good first objective if attained, but that's all it is. A UK tourni group rejoins the happy family, the French probably won't (I hope I'm wrong on this but I don't think so).

This is the very least we could expect, it's been gained at great cost, and really it's still highly unsatisfactory.

Given these factors it would be easy to consider that those who advised splitting from SG entirely are vindicated by this result more than we are. Crowing about us being vindicated makes little sense to me, I might even be inclined to gracefully concede the point. We have had to exert an unreasonably monumental effort to make this happen, especially Neal (and Pixelgeek who has been attacking it from many angles for some time).  Getting the right perspective on what's happened influences how the future should be tackled.

Of course, another observation might be that 'for the love of the game' motivation appears rather unstoppable once it gets organised...  :alien:

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:08 pm 
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A UK tourni group rejoins the happy family


That would be a good result as far as I'm concerned.

The UK tourney scene are currently playing a third version of epic, which is different in several subtle ways to both the rulebook and the handbook.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 12:25 pm 
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I'd say that this is for practical purposes, all there will be.  Andy has shown himself willing to update vault documents and we can continue to work on those lists but I wouldn't expect anything else to become official.


Perhaps it's worth asking Jervis for permission to set up a trimvirate to vet experimental lists?

Such lists could be marked 'ERC Approved' instead of 'Official'... for whatever that means...

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Reddeth
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 1:42 pm 
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Just caught up with these latest developments, great news. The biggest worry I had with the game in recent times was the differing rule sets being used by various groups.

As long as JJ comes through with the goods then we will all have an official updated rule set that can be used as the basis for army list development (which unfortunately seems destined to be fan driven only). I do wonder just how many experimental rules will make the cut though...

A central rulebook is also pretty important re updated versions of the current lists, with some of the Black Legion tweaks very much dependant on the MW BP ruling.

Good news at last, things had been a little bleak of late.
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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 3:32 pm 
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As a UK tournament player, army champion and original playtester. I am happy to hear that there is going to be movement. Of course I am happy with the core game, with its faults, at the moment but change can be for the good.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:57 am 
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(Markconz @ Mar. 05 2008,21:16)
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At the very least I'd say we want the additional objective of a rules review process secured.  I'm not optimistic about  this happening.

To comment on my own comment, I believe the system recently set up by Cybershadow is satisfactory to meet this objective now. I also believe this new ERC format should be able to work with SG well enough.

The moderator situation of the SG experimental rules section needs to be rectified though.  It is highly confusing for people visiting that area. Can the ERC please make this a priority?

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:29 pm 
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Latest update:  Errata and FAQ docs are drafted and in the process of being reviewed and edited.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 1:33 pm 
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Terrible news!

Horrible news!

The world is ended!

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Ginger
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:03 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 10 2008,12:33)
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Terrible news!

Horrible news!

The world is ended!





- - - - - nuffing left to "Winge" at??! :p

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 12:04 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Mar. 10 2008,12:33)
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Terrible news!

I agree.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Rules Review Blog
PostPosted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:22 am 
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(Ginger @ Mar. 10 2008,23:03)
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- - - - - nuffing left to "Winge" at??! :p

It's GW, there'll *always* be something with winge at!

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