| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Sun Apr 16, 2006 1:39 pm
Posts: 227
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I cant remember specific lists I have used but a typical one using the smaller WE would be:
Retinue in Rhinos
Retinue in Rhinos
Raptors
Decimator
Decimator
Land Raiders
Hell Talons
Feral
Chosen
Chosen
Folorn Hope
Folorn Hope
I have played both using 'out of the book' rules, and using the BP table and MW changes.
Using the out of the book rules, the decimators performed very poorly, they have been fragile, slow, short ranged and having done so much damage when they actually fired. AP 4+/AT6+ is fairly pants against tanks, it makes the Decimator a pure infantry killer - even firing against clustered IG mechanised infantry companies I havent had good results. I dont see them as worth taking in this set up
Using the changed rules, the Decimator is a fearsome prospect if its left alone to do its thing. A single one quite easily kills 4-5 units out of a mech infantry company if its not doubling. I also played a game against BL when I was teaching a fellow how to play, and a single decimator did fairly horrendous damage on an IG infantry company which were holding some scrub on a hill. I would regard both those targets as 'optimal' however. It was also attacking directly in support of a foot based retinue, which is when I think these fellows work best.
It should be noted that the time I had best results from them, I used the list above, one was killed by shadowswords on the baseline, another doubled forward, shot some IG mech infantry, was assaulted by roughriders but survived, then got some good shooting at the mech infantry the next turn before being broken and hiding behind a hill for the rest of the game. I regarded this as good results 
Thus I need to echo Steve54 about the vulnerability of the Decimator. 3 Blastmarkers and they are broken, 3 dc and they are dead. I have regularly faced shadowsword companies which may account for the vulnerability I have noticed but the pattern Steve54 highlights I recognise: Destruction on the Baseline by long range fire, or doubling forward, not so impressive firing, then being mobbed by an assault or more short range fire. So much so I've taken to fielding a ravager on a regular basis instead.
I could see decimators being more of a problem if they could be used en masse, as not ALL of them could be picked off. To my mind however, I am not seeing that they would be overpowered if they came out of the titans 1/3 allowance as then you could have a maximum of 4 in 3000 points anyway. (You can get 6 shadowswords for 100 points more!)
I think the CC should be dropped to further make them vulnerable to counter attack (4+ is too much, chaos spikey could give it 5+ max IMO). If it lost MW I'm not sure it would be worth taking. If they are meant to be proto-shadowswords, MW is appropriate. It might be better if they lost IC, lost some CC, and were moved to the WE allowance. This would be enough to limit Decimator spam and still keep them worth taking.
Note: All games have been against IG, ranging between Tank heavy to more balanced. I havent used them against infantry heavy (usually 2 mech infantry comp max)
To summarise:
a) Used in limited numbers they haven't proved overpowering in my games
b) Even with their high firepower they are vulnerable to long ranged fire and localised counter attack
c) They would feel overpriced if they lost MW
d) If they were allowed in large numbers their high firepower would cause more of a problem
Ferals
List as above.
Ferals have mostly, in my experience, been cut to pieces by shadowswords the turn after all the decimators are dead! I've had them fire on mech infantry and got similar kill results to the decimator. Of course, the advantage is it has shields and is much faster, and this is where it comes into its own, I would say this makes a huge difference. It has been much easier to use terrain to hide from shadowswords when needed, much easier to get into crossfire positions.
I have used ferals mainly to support mechanised assaults, and the time it worked it was very good - place the enemy into a crossfire position, then assault with something else and support with the ferals 5 firefight attacks. However I havent used them lots, partially because some of the games we have been playing with the out of the book rules where, again, I dont think they would be worth their points as much.
With the rise to warhounds, I would think ferals need a 25 point rise. Alternatively, and personally what I would prefer, they should lose MW and stay at 300, or even go down. Their firepower would be comparable to a warhound if they lost MW, and they would be differentiated in target priority from a decimator - more anti infantry and assault support.
Deathwheels
Havent had a chance to use them yet! Next game
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