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Question on CC weapons with reduced firing arcs
ragnarok
 Post subject: Question on CC weapons with reduced firing arcs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:50 am 
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This came up in our game yesterday.  I charged a pair of Heirophants into a CC Reaver (powerfist and chain fist)  One contacted the side, and the other hit it in the rear.

Now the Reavers arm weapons are forward arc only, so wouldn't be able to hit the phant behind it.  However could it turn to face?

We decided that it couldn't turn in the first round of combat, but could if the combat went on for a second round.

The reasoning being oit had just been jumped by two titans and couldn't do a counter chare move (since it can't barge titans).

If it had been charged by non WE units then it could tuern as it barges through them with its counter charge.


So what should we have done?  could the reaver had turned?

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Question on CC weapons with reduced firing arcs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 11:24 am 
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(Hena @ Feb. 19 2008,10:18)
QUOTE
Barge isn't allowed if you are contacted with WE. So Reaver could not have turned.

But could it of turned to face as a counter charge move?

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Question on CC weapons with reduced firing arcs
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:07 pm 
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It doesn't actually state anywhere in the rules that models in base contact are allowed, or not allowed to turn to face the enemy.

The rules also seem to imply that WEs can't barge on a counter charge, nor counter charge if they are already based by an enemy unit.

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Ginger
 Post subject: Question on CC weapons with reduced firing arcs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:19 am 
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There is a FAQ which specifies that you can barge in a countercharge 3.3 War Engine Assaults
[SNIP]
Q: Can War Engines barge units out of the way in a Counter Charge?
A: Yes.
Regarding turning, I would suggest that you may not Countercharge if you are already in B-B with the charging unit, because the countercharge is by definition towards the nearest enemy (which you are already in contact with) and ends when you contact it.

However, if the Reaver was not contacted by the charge, there seems to be nothing in the rules to prevent the Reaver from spinning like a top to sort out is arcs of fire.

That said, I seem to recollect Neal and possibly Greg saying that there are no "arcs of fire" in an assault

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Question on CC weapons with reduced firing arcs
PostPosted: Wed Feb 20, 2008 2:32 am 
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(Ginger @ Feb. 19 2008,17:19)
QUOTE
That said, I seem to recollect Neal and possibly Greg saying that there are no "arcs of fire" in an assault

I think Titan arcs do apply in CC.

Unless the Titan was pinned in combat I can't see that anything would stop it from moving in its own activation to turn and bring its CC weapons to bear.

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Ginger
 Post subject: Question on CC weapons with reduced firing arcs
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:07 am 
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Hmm PG,

Checking the AMTL and Ork titan stats, the restricted arc notes all apply to ranged weapons and are absent from the notes against the Assault weapon stats. Could you point out where restricted arcs are also applied to assaults in the basic rules or some other FAQ?

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Question on CC weapons with reduced firing arcs
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:13 am 
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(Ginger @ Feb. 20 2008,15:07)
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Hmm PG

If there are no arcs then there are no arcs.

I assumed that since there was discussion about this that the weapons had them.

Sorry... but if there are no arcs on a weapon entry then what isthe debate about

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Question on CC weapons with reduced firing arcs
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 11:43 am 
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l had assumed that the arcs were on the mounts not a weapon, since a carpace turbo laser is fixed forwards, but forwrds if arm mounted.

Since the placing of th weapon changes it's arc, why would tehave arcnot for the weapons?

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Chroma
 Post subject: Question on CC weapons with reduced firing arcs
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:59 pm 
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First, note that the "Weapon Fire Arcs" is a special rule in the Shooting section, and speaks of weapons "firing" at targets within the arc.  Shooting/firing doesn't come into play in assaults.

Second, note that any unit, eg Gargant and Great Gargant, that has a weapon that can be used for shooting *and* assaults only has the firing arc restriction on the shooting part; this is even the case for the Lifta-Droppa which is a firefight weapon.

Evidence would seem to indicate that "Weapon Fire Arcs" do no apply in assaults.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Question on CC weapons with reduced firing arcs
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:25 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 21 2008,14:19)
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Black Legion has a titan with fire arcs on the assault weapons...

And that's a mistake; it occurs no where in the "core" rules, in fact, it's specifically avoided.

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pixelgeek
 Post subject: Question on CC weapons with reduced firing arcs
PostPosted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:25 pm 
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(Chroma @ Feb. 21 2008,06:25)
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And that's a mistake; it occurs no where in the "core" rules, in fact, it's specifically avoided.

That is an opinion.

Those stats came from Jervis and if Jervis thought they were appropriate then...

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