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a few questions that popped up
Dave
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:35 pm 
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After yesterday's Game with DS I have a few questions.

How does the Disrupt ability work with Void Shields?  Do they take the hits, go down, but no BM are taken?

How does the Knight's Shield work against a TK weapons?  I hit a knight with my Pin-point attack from my Hiveship and rolled a 3 for damage.

If a Paladin is in base to base in an assault, does it get the extra Small Arms attack from its Thermal Cannon and Shock Lance.

I had 4 Swarms in my Hiveship that made Planetfall, do I record 4 separate drop zones for each of them, or must they all use the same drop zone.

Finally, if I use the Commander ability to engage and another formation follows the commander, must the following formation engage the same formation the commander is engaging if another enemy is within range? Does it matter if the two enemy formations being engaged by my formations are not intermingled?




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 10:44 pm 
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How does the Disrupt ability work with Void Shields?  Do they take the hits, go down, but no BM are taken?


You are correct.

Disrupt only works on things which would take BM's if they were killed (So grots and imperial void shields also don't generate BM's when killed).

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Chroma
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:28 pm 
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(Dave @ Jan. 14 2008,21:35)
QUOTE
I had 4 Swarms in my Hiveship that made Planetfall, do I record 4 separate drop zones for each of them, or must they all use the same drop zone.

Four separate swarms is four different drop zones, though you can bunch them up if you like.

Finally, if I use the Commander ability to engage and another formation follows the commander, must the following formation engage the same formation the commander is engaging if another enemy is within range? Does it matter if the two enemy formations being engaged by my formations are not intermingled?

They must attack the same formation as the commander, and can't attack non-intermingled enemy formations, in addition, *ALL* the formations the commander takes count as one formation for coherency rules until the end of the assault; this can lead to portions being out of formation and removed from play in an assault goes for more than one round.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Mon Jan 14, 2008 11:46 pm 
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(Dave @ Jan. 14 2008,21:35)
QUOTE
How does the Disrupt ability work with Void Shields?  Do they take the hits, go down, but no BM are taken?

Like E&C said, if it doesn't get BMs for dying, Disrupt doesn't work on it either.

How does the Knight's Shield work against a TK weapons?  I hit a knight with my Pin-point attack from my Hiveship and rolled a 3 for damage.

I'd have to check, but I believe it's all or nothing, like the Eldar Holofield.

If a Paladin is in base to base in an assault, does it get the extra Small Arms attack from its Thermal Cannon and Shock Lance.
Yes.  WEs can break up their assault attacks into FF and CC, regardless of what is in base contact.  Unlike other units that throw all FF/CC hit into a single pool for allocation, FF hits may only be allocated to FF targets and CC hits only to CC targets.

In practice, though, it's rare that it matters because with multiple knights in a unit they can frequently assign the FF attacks to a unit that is in base contact with a different knight, i.e. not in base contact with the knight making the FF attack.  If assaulted, they can barge so it's pretty much impossible to use them to block each other's field of fire.

I had 4 Swarms in my Hiveship that made Planetfall, do I record 4 separate drop zones for each of them, or must they all use the same drop zone.
Each formation may plot a separate drop zone.

Finally, if I use the Commander ability to engage and another formation follows the commander, must the following formation engage the same formation the commander is engaging if another enemy is within range? Does it matter if the two enemy formations being engaged by my formations are not intermingled?
They must attack the same target.  If you can intermingle the enemy, that's considered one target (they are treated as a single formation for the duration of the assault).  There's no way to assault 2 separate, non-intermingled targets in a single action.

===

chroma beat me to it.  That's what I get for being distracted by work after I started a post...  :D

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Dave
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:53 pm 
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Thanks guys,

A couple of follow up questions/comments.

On re-reading the Knight's Shield rule, I think the Knight would have to make 1 save for the TK weapon. If it failed then each point damage would pass though, and would get no save because they are TK attack.

----

On Assaults and WEs, this is the issue being covered in the change docs correct?  I just wanted to see if I got it.

Non-WEs: Pool all your CC and FF hits, allocate them front to back to all units within 15cm.  Pool all your CC and FF MW hits, allocate them front to back starting where the normal attacks left off.

WEs: Keep your CC and FF hits separate, allocate CC only to enemy units in base to base, and FF to the closet enemy units within 15cm.  Then do the same for MW hits.

Is that correct?

Does line of sight matter for non-WE units?

Also, can you explain why this sentence is in the rules:



Hits from macro-weapons can only be applied to units that are in a position to be hit by a macro-weapon.



I would take that to mean any enemy unit within 15cm of your non-WE unit dishing out the MW may be targeted, whether it is CC or FF.

As to WE units, I would take that to mean MW CC attacks may only be allocated to units in base to base, and MW FF attacks to units within 15cm and with a line of sight.

----

How does intermingling work with WE and non-WE formations?  A 3DC WE has a formation coherency of 15cm, do non-WE units within 15cm count as intermingled or is it just the hard 5cm, no changes?




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Chroma
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 4:57 pm 
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(Dave @ Jan. 15 2008,15:53)
QUOTE
How does intermingling work with WE and non-WE formations? ?A 3DC WE has a formation coherency of 15cm, do non-WE units within 15cm count as intermingled or is it just the hard 5cm, no changes?

Coherency and the intermingling rule have nothing in common other than "5cm" and have nothing to do with each other.

Coherency is *only* used for units in the same formation, while intermingling is *only* measured between different formations.

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Dave
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 5:05 pm 
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No change it is, thanks.

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Dave
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 9:19 pm 
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Non-WEs: Pool all your CC and FF hits, allocate them front to back to all units within 15cm.  Pool all your CC and FF MW hits, allocate them front to back starting where the normal attacks left off.

WEs: Keep your CC and FF hits separate, allocate CC only to enemy units in base to base, and FF to the closet enemy units within 15cm.  Then do the same for MW hits.

Is that correct?

I think that they start from the nearest again when jumping to MW. But otherwise yes.

Where did you find that bit then?

As long as a single unit in formation can see a opposing formations unit that is within 15cm, then it is possible (how did one spell a word that is something like 'eglible') target.

Eligible, yes.

Also, can you explain why this sentence is in the rules:


Hits from macro-weapons can only be applied to units that are in a position to be hit by a macro-weapon.

That is being deleted by the Change Docs.

In Option 1 I believe it is but in Option 2 (which is the option I thought that was going forward), it is not.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Tue Jan 15, 2008 10:18 pm 
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Non-WEs: Pool all your CC and FF hits, allocate them front to back to all units within 15cm.  Pool all your CC and FF MW hits, allocate them front to back starting where the normal attacks left off.

MW hits are allocated only after non-MW hits are allocated and resolved.  MW hits are then allocated in what is effectively a separate "round" of allocation, starting over with the closest as normal.  It's in the MW rules (2.2.6):
If an attacking formation scores hits both with normal weapons and weapons with the macroweapon ability, then the opposing player must allocate and make any saves for the normal hits first, and then allocate and make any saves for the macro-weapon hits.

WEs: Keep your CC and FF hits separate, allocate CC only to enemy units in base to base, and FF to the closet enemy units within 15cm.
Yes.

Just note that whether it's CC or FF is based on the specific model making the attacks, so a formation with multiple WEs can frequently choose FF with little chance of actually losing or doubling attacks based on not having the right kind of target.  For example, WE #1 uses FF and allocates any hits to enemy units in base contact with WE #2 because that is FF range from WE #1.  SHT companies and Knight formations and other multi-WE formations can be deceptively tough in assaults because of this ability.

Same comment on MW allocation as above - it's a separate "round" of allocation but otherwise done with the same rules as normal allocation.

I would take that to mean any enemy unit within 15cm of your non-WE unit dishing out the MW may be targeted, whether it is CC or FF.

As to WE units, I would take that to mean MW CC attacks may only be allocated to units in base to base, and MW FF attacks to units within 15cm and with a line of sight.
That's correct.  Note that the target eligibility is based on range and LoS only.  You don't track the specific unit that made the hit.  As long as the target is in range/LoS of any attacker, that counts as eligible.

In the case of MW, it would need to be range/LoS of any MW attack (again, regardless of whether the specific MW attack which qualifies for range/LoS actually scored the hit).

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Dave
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:17 pm 
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On thinking back to DS's and my game from yesterday I have another planetfall related question.  Four of my formations made planetfall, some rather close to each other.  What I liked to know is, when multiple formations make planetfall, are the placement and scatter concluded first before any attacks (like Deathwind) are resolved?

So, in other words, I place my formations within 15cm of my recorded drop zones.  I scatter them all, and then I resolve attacks one Deathwind at a time.  If an enemy formation breaks, they withdraw before a second Deathwind attacks.

That's the way we played it, but I just wanted to be sure as I couldn't find where this was noted in the Rulebook or FAQs.

Thanks.

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Ginger
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:52 pm 
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I think it is implied in 4.4 Planetfall, where you "consider each unit in turn".

I certainly do the same thing as you, completing the entire planetfall process for each unit before going onto the next planetfalling unit; including carrying out the deathwind attacks (if any) and disembarking any troops.

There are two points behind this:-
- Firstly, the Deathwind attack can break nearby enemy permitting you to deploy into areas they have just vacated
- Secondly, the troops deploying from one transport may inadvertently block or inhibit the next planetfalling transport and it's troops.




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Dave
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 7:58 pm 
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Well that's not the same as what I did.

I placed all planetfall markers and then scattered them.  Then I conducted each Deathwind attack separately, they I disembarked.

If you place a planetfall marker for one unit, then scatter it, resolve its Deathwind and disembark before you place another planetfall marker you have the ability to land closer to the enemy.

For instance, if your Deathwind from the first unit broke a Scout formation you would then be able to land your second planetfall closer to any units that scout formation might have been screening with its 10cm ZoC.

Considering I'm playing the drop 'nid list, that would be a nasty advantage to me.  One that I don't think the rules should allow.




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Ginger
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 8:14 pm 
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We were editing our posts simultaneously :p

I suspect that there would only be a slight advantage here if any. The difference being that you could place your drop pod inside an enemy ZoC using my method, while you are not allowed to do so under yours. I think the drop pod in question can therefore only move a matter of a few Cms which is not going to make a huge difference. However, it is much easier and clearer to process each drop pod in turn (IMHO) :)

Does that make sense, and could upi explain why the 'Nid drop pod army would be so vicious ('Cos I might just have to try this :D  :p )




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Dave
 Post subject: a few questions that popped up
PostPosted: Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:11 pm 
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This is all assuming your drops are on target.  But if you process them sequentially, as opposed to land and scatter them at the same time, you have the ability to drop a swarm much close to an enemy, possibly within assault range.

Using your method I would be able to drop some of my common brood creatures down first, and hopefully break any scout units that might be screening the rest of the enemy.  Then I could my uncommon brood creatures after and engage those formations that are really a threat to me.

I have found that Mycetic spore dropped Carnifex and to a lesser extent Zoanthropes really clean up in an assault.  Especially if there are some Disposable lesser brood creatures to soak up any returning hits.  Their casualties will still count towards assault resolution but after words you are left with a relatively BM free swarm.

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