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Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
tarrisvaal
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:45 pm 
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Almost finished painting the entire army now (what was before was the first 3000pts)

Im just waiting on a friend to drop off some more Khemri shields so I can make enough raiders/ravagers to go around and I'm done bar the Executor.

I'll have my first battle report up on Thursday on the Wiki blog as well. Ill try and make sure there's photos.

That is a nice looking army!


Thank you :)

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:55 pm 
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(TheLimey @ Nov. 12 2007,15:08)
QUOTE
Sent my current lot. May have some more for you in a few days as well.

Thanks! Hey amigo, the WIP pics look great. ?I dare say I like your BoP better than mine. ?Can you take another shot of it from a lower angle of attack? ?I'm curious what it looks like from eye level. ?

For completed models (this goes for everybody) you could help me out a great deal by posing them with terrain or on a plain surface. ?While people expect to see the WIPs on cutting boards and surrounded by glue bottles, I think we all like to see the models posed in some fashion. ?I'll leave it up to you to decide.




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TheLimey
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:22 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Nov. 13 2007,09:55)
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Thanks! Hey amigo, the WIP pics look great. ?I dare say I like your BoP better than mine. ?Can you take another shot of it from a lower angle of attack? ?I'm curious what it looks like from eye level. ?

Will do, once I've put a touch of green stuff on it to hide the holes in the hull.

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tarrisvaal
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:19 pm 
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Following a train of thought on from the DE tactics thread - the Perditor's indirect fire weapon - I've been thinking about this quite a bit, as I'm a huge fan of Nightspinners in the Eldar list and like the suggestion of a non lethal version for capturing slaves for the DE but...

Looking at this idea, you have a potentially powerful weapon that has a number of major disadvantages. Namely:

* It is placed inside a slow unit that needs to get into combat to be effective, but needs to stand still to use indirect fire

* On its own is a fairly weak barrage weapon (only BP2)

Ive already suggested allowing the number of Perditors to be increased in a unit. It can hugely increase the power of the weapon, but this only exacerbates the first problem- and becomes an increasingly expensive unit to be sitting around. It also creates another problem - Why would Dark Eldar have an artillery formation as a raiding force?

So my line of thought switched to the idea of what if the Perditor was a 0-2 upgrade (same as the Talos) at 150pts each as normal but the barrage weapon becomes BP3 and one shot?

The increased power of the shot makes it worth stopping and using as indirect (and potentially quite devastating if 2 Perditors are present), and being One shot it doesnt slow the formation down much from its primary purpose (assault) and even presents the tactical question of when to make use of it.

The fluff problem can be solved then by suggesting that the Perditor barrage is just the signal that starts the attack - A mass of barbed strands from nowhere pinning down the terrified enemy before a Kabal syndicate charges in to pick off survivors and collect the captured supported by a second wave of Talos.

I'll try to squeeze in a smaller game tonight to playtest this idea, but anyone have any initial thoughts on this?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2007 3:17 pm 
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I'm not sure that the Perditor needs the indirect fire or even needs to be increased in its deployement (from one to two).  But there have been some complaints that the unit lacks 'something' given its slow speed and limited deployment.  Personally I've used it twice - once with limited success (it got destroyed rather quickly) and once with great success.  Personally I think it is a well balanced unit given its cost.  Adding the indirect fire doesn't increase its value too much because it is contrary to its standard function (move to assault) so this was more of a nudge to the unit to encourage its use while giving the Dark Eldar a weapon that reaches beyond 45cm.  Any formation of Talos with perditors is pretty much sitting doing nothing if it is holding an objective uncontested.  Now the Perditor(s) can fire indirectly and gain use of that range.  Of course by the time you actualy claim an objective with these things it is the end of turn 2 anyway, so you'll most likely get between zero and two shots indirect fire tops.

With that said I wouldn't call the indirect fire artillery any more than I'd call morters artillery.  I was visualizing this being a non-lethal version of the monofilament weapons used by the nightspinners but would act as a net / trapping system much as you described.  At 2BP it is fairly effective against infantry but not against armor.  At 4BP obviously you get some increased usgae but you are also paying more.

Bear in mind that not all casualties in Epic mean death or destroyed.  They can mean that the tank tread has been busted and the unit is incapable of performing its combat duty.  Or that the infantry have too many wounded or are captured or routed.  

Lets stick with the indirect for now at 2BP.  Go crazy and field two Perditors if you want and please let us know how everything goes. :)

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blackhorizon
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 9:20 am 
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Hi Raiders team:

I hope the Book of Nemesis Battlefleet Gothic project available at the SG site:

http://www.specialist-games.com

inspires you!

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:30 pm 
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Very nice work, BH. ?The layout is excellent and the writing (although I haven't read the whole thing) is well done. ?SG should be sending you guys a commission check! Consider me inspired and a little jealous. ?:;): ?
-------------------
For Raiders we're still plugging along. ?The holidays and increased work load have really made things difficult for me personally but E&C and Corey are still working away.

The fiction is for all intents and purposes completed and we're just cleaning it up, filling holes, etc. ?

The lists are still an area of concern. ?Minervans need some small modifications because of the demolisher MW fiasco. ?Once that is resolved I think the list will be in better shape.

Necrons IMO need some changes as well, most prominently a decision on the Destroyers and Heavy Destroyers. ?With that resolved the list should be in much better shape. ?The removal of the autorally and the variable Strategy Rating have made things much better though and I dare say close to balanced.

Dark Eldar are still brittle but the newest modifications have certainly helped them. ?Although they are not widely playtested the Fleet of Foot rules and other small mods don't appear to have swung the list to being too powerful. ?Only time will tell if they had enough of an effect to bring the DE up to par.

We still need more playtesting with all three lists, but I doubt the three of them will have more balance issues than the Swordwind armies. :p

Artwork is all done and thankfully Randy Lindborne (Juddski, the 2nd place winner of the artwork competition) has done up some custom pieces for us that will tie in directly to the storyline. ?They look fantastic!

The model shots... ?We could use some help on this section. ?I still would like permission from Hoyjn and you other Necron army owners to use pics of your artwork for the supplement. ?If you are interested please email me as many pictures as you like of your models on a plain background (light color preferably) or with terrain. ?Work-in-progress shots will be great too. ?We have had some excellent stuff submitted already but I'm trying to get pictures from multiple sources.

Modeling section: As above, I still need more material. Email me please and include your pics and how you wish to be credited. Thanks!

Minervan pics are non-existent. ?Part of the problem is that there is no defined paint scheme although E&C has been working on it. ?Hopefully he'll either get his own army done or be able to post some ideas soon so others can try to paint them up. ?If not we'll be using regular pics of Imperial Guard. ?If you have anything that looks desert-camo-ish (Warmaster Nice had some excellent stuff) those pictures would be most helpful.

EDIT: E&C tells me a painting guide and scheme will be ready for the Minervans quite soon.  Woohoo! :D

Dark Eldar have been wonderful lately. ?Rug, Charad, TheLimey, Tarrisvaal, and myself have all been working on our conversions and scrathbuilds and IMO the results are excellent. ?Personally I have only 16 stands of infantry left to do and some painting and I'll be done. ?Even with a hectic work schedule they should be done by Christmas. ?If you have anything you'd like to put in the publication you can email it to me or post it in the Dark Eldar wiki gallery. ?Please post them with a plain background or with terrain. ?Once again WIP shots are always welcome.

Scenarios: due to time constraints these were not done. ?Anyone who is interested in helping can email or PM me. ?I will email you the curretn fictional draft and you can plug away from there. ?Please only volunteer if you have time to do this between now and mid-January.

Deadline: Uhmmm... Obviously November is out. ?:O ?E&C has committed us to mid-January 2008 for the Firebase deadline (which will include Raiders). ?I don't think any of us intend on missing that deadline! ?:D ?

That is all. ?Thanks for your interest as always.




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blackhorizon
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Wed Dec 12, 2007 2:40 pm 
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I only was the messenger to this thread. I didn't do anything on the Book of Nemesis. It was MKG and the crew at www.cypra.net + Cybershadow.

Good to read the raiders update.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 12:29 pm 
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These product codes from GW are a handy way to make some good conversions...
99390112003
9947011201205
9947011201207
9947011203104
9947011202702
9947011202703
They are also being cancelled, forcing you to buy the whole kit.

Anyone who wants to build an Epic Dark Eldar army best order your parts before January 29th if you want them.  Also check out these codes which are not being cancelled.
99140112001
99110112012
99120112004
99120304001 Epic Eldar Warhost
99060304048 Fire Warriors and Dire Avengers
99060304026 Wraithgate & Avatar
and more (BFG stuff)

I will update as much as I can here what each code would be used for but suffice to say you may need more than one of each.  Yes, they get expensive but when you add up the total cost it isn't any worse than buying an Epic army from SG.  I'll break it down over the weekend for interested parties.  Post any questions.

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tarrisvaal
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 9:20 pm 
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I'll be making an addition to my wiki blog sometime soon detailing how to convert raiders and ravagers using bitz that 'should' still be available easily after the changes -

Im just waiting to collect together some more flying stands and get cracking on them and it should be up soon.

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TheLimey
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 10:06 pm 
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I have to admit, I've been using ChaosOrc quite heavily for picking up my bitz.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Thu Jan 03, 2008 7:58 pm 
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As an update, January 17th is the date we will have Raiders completed.  While there have been setbacks (work, real life, TWO hard drive crashes, etc.), I see no reason why we won't make this deadline.  

Anyone wanting to have pictures of their models in Epic Raiders best email them to me ASAP.  After this weekend I can't make any guarantees that they will be considered at all.  Not that we don't want them, just that moving the formats around this late in the game is difficult and liable to give E&C a headache. :)

Thanks to the folks who pitched in in these final hours, by the way.  Your assistance has gone a long way to helping us make this work.

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blackhorizon
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2008 11:16 am 
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Good news. Eagerly awaiting it.

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stugmeister
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:31 am 
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I'm really looking forward to seeing how this turns out!!!  :cool:  :)
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic: Raiders Update & Discussion
PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:25 am 
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Due entirely to myself, Raiders has been pushed back a week or so more.

But we're now *that* close to the end!

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