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Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:31 pm 
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I've played many games against the Eldar under 1.8, and either my regular Eldar player (Pulsar from this forum) hasn't found a consistent playstyle yet, or the list is a bit underpowered, as I'm definitely ahead on wins vs his army with any of mine (And so are the guys in my gaming circle I think).

Note that Pulsar is not a bad wargamer, far from it as he came 4th in the Warhammer 40k Grand Tournament a couple of years back.


So, any other voices to hear and experiences to relate? Are the Eldar now a bit underpowered?

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Chroma
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:44 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 14 2007,13:31)
QUOTE
So, any other voices to hear and experiences to relate? Are the Eldar now a bit underpowered?

I'd say Eldar 1.8 are now *balanced*... and have to karmicly make up for all their previous killer wins, so they may be losing for a while...  :D

With "pulse" as a fixed number of shots you get consistently more firepower out of any of the units with it than under the old rules.

Perhaps because, in earlier version of the list, I never really used Revenants, but learned to rely on other thing, their "nerfing" has had little effect on me.

With the lack of "spirit stones" I find I do have to play a bit more cautiously, but they're still a feared army around here.

What does a "typical" Pulsar list look like?

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Markconz
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:47 pm 
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Yeah I'm with Chroma so far. Definitely not weak around here yet.

Some armies are definitely tougher against your average eldar list than others though I think. Guard inf/art combos for example. On the other hand, armour lists will often be shredded by Eldar.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:52 pm 
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(Markconz @ Dec. 14 2007,13:47)
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Some armies are definitely tougher against your average eldar list than others though I think. Guard inf/art combos for example. On the other hand, armour lists will often be shredded by Eldar.

Eldar have an answer for almost every problem an enemy can face them with...

Ususally, it's "Warp Spiders"... *laugh*

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Markconz
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 2:56 pm 
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(Chroma @ Dec. 14 2007,12:52)
QUOTE

(Markconz @ Dec. 14 2007,13:47)
QUOTE
Some armies are definitely tougher against your average eldar list than others though I think. Guard inf/art combos for example. On the other hand, armour lists will often be shredded by Eldar.

Eldar have an answer for almost every problem an enemy can face them with...

Ususally, it's "Warp Spiders"... *laugh*

Hehe yeah, and that's also part of the problem, bring the wrong team of specialists to the party and your going to be in a world of hurt.

Unless it's Warp Spiders  :;):

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:06 pm 
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Let's see, I think his list yesterday looked something like:

- Voidspinner
- Storm Serpent & Scorpion
- 5 Fireprisms
- 5 Falcons with a Firestorm
- 4 Swooping Hawks to teleport
- 8 Shining Spears with Autarch & Exarch
- 3 Nightwings
- Wraithgate
- Eldar Guardian Warhost with 3 Wraithlords & 3 Wraithguards
- Eldar Guardian Warhost with 3 Wraithlords & 3 Wraithguards
- An Avatar of Khaine (It ended up supporting two different Engagements then leading an Engagement of its own, busy work for a single turn!)

I may be wrong but if so Pulsar will correct me. It was supposed to total 3000pts.


My army list was:

- Reg HQ with 3 Hellhounds
- Mech Inf Co.
- Storm Trooper Platoon with Valkyries
- Sentinel Squadron
- Baneblade
- Baneblade
- 2 Thunderbolts
- Warlord Titan

Turns out I only had 2900pts instead of 3000 (I jigged the armylist to include the Warlord at the last minute as we were in a GW store and I wanted to have the 'coolest' model I had on the table... apparently I can't do maths on the fly!), but I still won 3-1 (BTS, Blitz, Two in his half vs. Blitz... if one of a last pesky pair of Shining Spear units had failed its save, that would have been 4-0 instead as he'd have lost the Blitz, and I'd have gained 'none unbroken on my half of the board').




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Chroma
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:19 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 14 2007,14:06)
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- Voidspinner
- Storm Serpent & Scorpion

I'd say split the Storm Serpent & Scorpion as this might be the most fragile BTS the Eldar can have! ?*Especially* as it will generally have to be in the thick of things to be effective!

- 5 Fireprisms
- 5 Falcons with a Firestorm

These should be decent.
- 4 Swooping Hawks to teleport
I know people love this formation, but it's so easy to get rid of by anyone paying attention... I'd tend to put a couple of Swoops into the Shining Spear Warhost... and it needs an Exarch for the occasional assault.

- 8 Shining Spears with Autarch & Exarch
Deadly, but narrowly focused... a nice anti-Titan scalpel.

- Eldar Guardian Warhost with 3 Wraithlords & 3 Wraithguards
- Eldar Guardian Warhost with 3 Wraithlords & 3 Wraithguards

Those Wraithlords eat up a *lot* of points! ?I'd say drop the Wraithlords from one of these, in addition to dropping one Wraithguard from the same one to give you enough points for a Windrider Troupe and an Exarch for your Swoops.

Then the other Guardian Warhost is your BTS with *six* hard, fearless units in it... and it'll probably be guarding the Eldar Blitz so the enemy has to come to it! ?Definitely put some Heavy Weapon Platforms in there to for a bunch of overwatch fun!

That's what I'd do... and it would be a nasty list! ?*laugh*

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:27 pm 
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It could also be the IG is just tougher now given your Baneblades are MW equipped. :)

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:40 pm 
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(Chroma @ Dec. 14 2007,13:44)
QUOTE
What does a "typical" Pulsar list look like?

here is a few of the lists i've used in the last few games i've played:-

list one

Avatar Total: free

Wraithgate Total: ?50

Aspect Warrior Warhost (300)
(8 Shining Spears)
+ Autarch (75)
+ Exarch (25) Total: 400

Guardian Warhost (150)
+ 3 Wraithguard units (150)
+ 3 Wrathlords (175) Total: 475

Guardian Warhost (150)
+ 2 Wraithguard units (100)
+ 3 Wrathlords (175) Total: 425

Sword Of Vaul
(5 Fire Prisms, 1 FireStorm) Total: 375

Sword Of Vaul
(5 Falcons, 1 FireStorm) Total: 300

Shields Of Vaul
(3 Night Spinners) Total: 175

Engine Of Vaul
(1 Voidspinner) Total: 250

Engine Of Vaul
(1 Storm Serpent) Total: 250

Nightwings
(3 Nightwings) Total: 300

Total: 3000

List Two
Avatar Total: free

Wraithgate Total: ?50

Aspect Warrior Warhost (300)
(8 Shining Spears)
+ Autarch (75) Total: 375

Guardian Warhost (150)
+ 2 Wraithguard units (100)
+ 3 Wrathlords (175) Total: 425

Guardian Warhost (150)
+ 2 Wraithguard units (100)
+ 3 Wrathlords (175) Total: 425

Sword Of Vaul
(4 Fire Prisms) Total: 260

Sword Of Vaul
(4 Falcons, 1 FireStorm) Total: 300

Engine Of Vaul
(1 Voidspinner) Total: 250

Engine Of Vaul
(1 Storm Serpent) Total: 250

Revenant Titans
(2 Titans) Total: 650

Total: 2985
list three
Avatar Total: free

Wraithgate Total: ?50

Aspect Warrior Warhost (300)
(4 Dire Avenger and 4 Striking Scorpion Units)
+ Autarch (75)
+ 4 Wave Serpents (200) Total: 575

Guardian Warhost (150)
+ 3 Wraithguard units (100)
+ 3 Wrathlords (175) Total: 475

Sword Of Vaul
(5 Fire Prisms) Total: 325

Sword Of Vaul
(4 Falcons, 1 FireStorm) Total: 300

Shields Of Vaul
(3 Night Spinners) Total: 175

Engine Of Vaul
(1 Voidspinner) Total: 250

Warlock Titan Total: 850

Total: 3000
hope that helps, the armys i played against were troop heavy guard, necrons, iron warrors and space wolves, i lost to every thing but the space wolves but that is because he didn't have his thunderhawks with him.

you can discount 1 lost due to me being stupid when deploying against necrons and spreading my army out!!!!! and one were i did not roll any activatons and fluffed 3 engages in a row and then the first thing that shot a the Warlock hit, i fail both saves and he rolls the a critical hit and boom no holo-field gone a 3ed of the way through the first turn!! i'ed lost 1200-1700 points for his three guard bases and a hellhound.

but all in all ?i'm about 2 wins and 8 losses, the main thing i found with the list is that because my gaming group know how fast eldar are they supress my formations with long range stuff or suiciding semi expendable units and there for destorying enough of each of my units two make them much less effictive for the rest of the game or braking them.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:54 pm 
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The fates of each formation:

- Voidspinner
Spent the game bombing me, and emerged practically unscathed. It was chased away from the Blitz goal by the presence of my Storm Troopers & Valkyries however.

- Storm Serpent & Scorpion
Destroyed, the Storm Serpent by some ranged shooting from the Warlord taking 2DC from it then rolling a Critical Hit, the Scorpion by a single Junior Commander base hiding in a bunker that was the sole survivor of the Mech Inf company.

- 5 Fireprisms
Bombed early in the game by the Valkyries (BP8, One kill = 3 BM's), and were later shot at a single time by a Baneblade, thereby breaking them. They spent the entire game thereafter broken.

- 5 Falcons with a Firestorm
I forget how these became broken, I think it was my Warlord Titan that broke them, they never rallied and never fired a shot.

- 4 Swooping Hawks to teleport
Teleported next to my Blitz, my Warlord turned around and erased them.

- 8 Shining Spears with Autarch & Exarch
Lost six bases during an Engagemen with the Warlord Titan, the remaining two bases rallied and claimed my Blitz at  the end of the game.

- 3 Nightwings
Survived the game unscathed.

- Wraithgate
Was not destroyed, nor blocked. ;)

- Eldar Guardian Warhost with 3 Wraithlords & 3 Wraithguards
Destroyed my Mech Inf Co. in an Engagement from the Storm Serpent on turn 2, but finished the game broken after losing several bases from... I can't remember what. :)

- Eldar Guardian Warhost with 3 Wraithlords & 3 Wraithguards
Engaged my Warlord from the Storm Serpent on turn 1, knocked 4DC off it and forced it back broken (It later rallied), Engaged my Reg HQ on turn 2 and killed all but 6 units, but became broken from combat losses. Never rallied after that.

- An Avatar of Khaine
Supported the two turn two Guardian Engagements, before Engaging my Warlord in a Firefight. The Avatar lost the firefight, and consolidated broken into BTB with the Warlord. I shot down a nearby formation which was going to Engage the Warlord (Thereby bringing the Avatar into the combat and allowing it to fight in CC vs the Warlord), but lacking an activating Engagement the Avatar disapeared into the aether at the end of the turn, whilst the Warlord trod onwards...



By way of comparison:

- Reg HQ with 3 Hellhounds
Nigh wiped-out, did virtually no killing all game, but claimed an objective in Pulsar's half on turn 3.

- Mech Inf Co.
Nigh wiped-out, but the last surviving base (The junior commander) killed Pulsar's broken Scorpion with a single shot.

- Storm Trooper Platoon with Valkyries
Lost 33% of their number during the game, finished up claiming the Blitz.

- Sentinel Squadron
Did almost nothing. Died to an Engagement by Shining Spears supported by Wraithlords & Wraithguard IIRC.

- Baneblade
Broke on turn 1, never rallied, despite FOUR rolls to rally it on a 4+.

- Baneblade (My converted Commissar Yarrick Baneblade)
Took an entire flank all on his own. Broke the Fireprisms as it did so.

- 2 Thunderbolts
Unscathed at the end of the game.

- Warlord Titan
Reduced to 2DC, no shields and 6BMs at the end of the game, with no critical hits. Broke once but rallied.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 3:55 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Dec. 14 2007,14:27)
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It could also be the IG is just tougher now given your Baneblades are MW equipped. :)

The Baneblades didn't fire their Demolisher cannons once all game.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:00 pm 
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E&C i've worked out that the nightwings should not have bin on the table last night, sorry i was fixing them after the thing with my army case and i must have thought they were in the list, not that they did much anyway,again sorry mate but it was an mistake on my part.




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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:03 pm 
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Aha! I won because of Kharma! :D


(Note: Pulsar's army was semi destroyed last night as the case fell open on the bus!)




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Pulsar
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:10 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Dec. 14 2007,15:03)
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Aha! I won because of Kharma! :D


(Note: Pulsar's army was semi destroyed last night as the case fell open on the bus!)

it did not fall open, some little kid was playing with the clips i asked his mum to stop him but she didn't and i did not look that hard at what he was doing so when i picked it up the hole contance shot everyware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

and then the mum laughed at me....................


not killing them was a close call.




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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Is Eldar 1.8 underpowered?
PostPosted: Fri Dec 14, 2007 4:12 pm 
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From the looks of what was left for the guard, it sounds like it was a close battle.

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