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Titan Legion Organisation
The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 6:07 am 
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Actually it seems there are two articles, downloading now...

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:18 am 
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'Legion' and 'Demi-legion' as subdivisions in the 3rd Armageddon War OoBats


'Quattro Legio' is in there as well.

To my eye, that implies that that particular Titan Legion only sent one quater of a 'full stength legion' (Whatever that may be).

It doesn't imply to me that it sent its entire strength, and then split it up into four different groups.

Welding together disparate sources - I knew my history degree wasn't wasted.

I disagree with your conjecture and refer to the primary source of the Epic:A rulebook, citing 'quattro legio'.



Here's the full list:

ADEPTUS MECHANICUS
CENTURIO ORDINATUS...............................................4 Ordinatus
LEGIO CRUCIUS ............................................................Demi-Legio
LEGIO IGNATUM....................................................>Quartro-Legio
LEGIO INVIGILATA ..................................................................Legio
LEGIO MAGNA...........................................................Quartro-Legio
LEGIO METALICA ..........................................................Demi-Legio
LEGIO TEMPESTOR.................................................................Legio
LEGIO VICTORUM...................................................................Legio
SKITARII......................................................................14 Regiments


Note the >Quartro-Legio, implying that Legio Ignatum sent less than a Quater of a full strength 'Legio', no? Seems they're an understrength formation here too...

Really someone needs to bring together all the sources in one document, there is much more information on the AM and on the legio than I think we realise, its just spread out.


I'm pretty sure Neal Hunt has a semi-decent collection of info on Titan legions (And their Chaos counterparts).




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Ilushia
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:24 am 
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I would have assumed that a Demi-Legio/Quattro-Legio was a measure of relative strength in terms of the % of the total titan legion there. So a Demi-Legio was half the Legio and a Quattro-Legio was 1/4 (or less presumably). The exact numbers might vary from Legio to Legion, much like a 'Company' of Space Marines is ostensibly 1/10th of a Chapter, but the exact numbers vary due to the fact that they don't count Dreadnoughts or vehicle crews as part of the company. The fact that the 'company' consists currently of 40 Tac Marines, 20 Devistators, 10 Assault Marines, 5 Dreadnoughts and 6 Rhinos doesn't make it less of a Company then one fielding 100 Scouts. Their exact composition and make-up varies, but their name is just a designation of their functional portion of the total army they're pulled from.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 10:28 am 
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Their exact composition and make-up varies, but their name is just a designation of their functional portion of the total army they're pulled from.


Other than believing that an objective scale is probably used (Rather than the Legion's own interpretation as to what a full strength 'Legio' consists of), I pretty much agree with your comments Ilushia.

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Kleomenes
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 1:10 pm 
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I should have checked the armageddon list (I was in a rush after combing Storm of Iron, my mistake) and it does throw a spanner in the works.

However, taking everything together its hard to argue  for an objective scale. The numbers in Storm of Iron and Iron Hands, the old Titan Legions fluff and the 12 Imperator Titan legion (although it could be a special case) all suggest that its not so simple.

If the balance of evidence is against fixed paper strengths, then Ilushia is probably right, the term demi- or quatro-legion literally means what it says. Half or a quarter of that particular legion, which is as big as it happens to be. Its probable in that case they arent exact.

Id like to reiterate that these arent regular military units. Legio is well chosen as a word, they are usually (not always) all the titans fielded by a forgeworld. Standard size legiones would be odd as it implies uniformity among the forgeworlds (and fast construction times)

Furthermore, variable size and organisation of legions means we have much more freedom to write our own!




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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:35 pm 
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I second that. But what is more importand than the numbers of Titans in a Legio is the ratio of each Titan CLASS.

The numbers of Reavers are ca half the numbers of Warlords and the numbers of Warhounds is ca half the numbers of Reavers.
Each Legio seems to have one Emperor Class Titan. Some might have two or even none.




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Soren
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:49 pm 
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(BlackLegion @ Nov. 23 2007,16:35)
QUOTE
I second that. But what is more importand than the numbers of Titans in a Legio is the ratio of each Titan CLASS.

The numbers of Reavers are ca half the numbers of Warlords and the numbers of Warlhounds is ca half the numbers of Reavers.
Each Legio seems to have one Emperor Class Titan. Some might have two or even none.

I am wondering about this. Normally it?s easier to build smaller titans faster, so the ratio should be 180 degree around. I would understand if a legion has more wolfhounds to scout positions before sending the "big `unz" in to finish off the enemy. Even for harassing broken troops only Wolfhounds are really suited, all other Titan classes are way to slow. Strategically it would make more sense to revert the numbers and double the numbers of Wolfhound over Reavers.

You have also more destroyers to guard your battleships, not the other way round.  :confuse:  
I am not sure if this particular "new" Legio allows to generalize that, but if we have no other informations.....

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:59 pm 
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So far i know the fluff Warlords are the most commong Titan Class. They are newer design than the Reavers and have surpassed them as the workhorse of the Titan Legions.
Ravers are now a "light" Battletitan where speed is more important than firepower.

Warhounds on the other hands are Scouttitans and not intended to form a main battle line as Battletitans do.
You only need a few fast specialists (= Scouts) for forward deployment. Warhounds are the vanguard units who look out for enemies and report back their positions to the heavy hitters (= Battletitans).
You don't need lots of such troops in order to fulfill this role.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:20 pm 
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In "The Taros Campaign", the Legio Ignatum commits four, unsupported, Warhounds as a "small battlegroup" to the conflict, so I don't think they're used just for scouting...

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 12:55 am 
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The 'lots of warlords few warhounds' thing goes into the effectiveness of the titans in the background material which may or may not reflect in the basic game. A warlord is ~2x the height of a Warhound, that means (And the proportions are fairly close) about 8x the total volume. 8x the basic raw materials to build the titan frame. The amount of time it takes to produce one is arguable, as while it takes 8x the raw materials since you can work multiple parts at once and assemble the finished product it may not take drastically more time to produce those end-materials for a Warlord compared to a Warhound. In E:A the Warlord is only about 9x as good as a Warhound in terms of firepower/durability (2x the firepower, 4.5x the durability, roughly). So if a Warlord takes 8x the raw materials and roughly the same build time as a Warhound, but  is 9x as good, you're theoretically getting an investment break on the Warlord compared to the Warhound in terms of how much raw materials it takes compared to end-results.

But that's all just conjecture and weirdness. The fact comes down to this: Warlords are supposed to be the workhorse of the army while Warhounds are scouts. It's the same reason modern militaries build lots of main battle tanks and use them as central forces as opposed to using say 3x the number of jeeps with recoilless rifles. While the Jeeps might be for-cost better their low durability and ease of destruction means you'll be replacing them a lot more often. Which ultimately stacks up to larger costs in the long run.
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nealhunt
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:26 am 
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I'm pretty sure that demi- and quatro- references have been used for both deployment sizes and actual total legion size.  I'm sure one of the legions was referred to as a demi-legio after it lost massive numbers to a particular campaign and they hadn't been replaced.

I'll have to check on that to be sure, though.

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Ilushia
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:58 am 
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It looks like you're right. My list has several Demi-Legios references after Legios lost significant numbers of Titans. 2 Demi-Legios and 1 Quatro-Legio off the list of Titan Orders put together by... I'm not sure who any more. But they've all got a list of reference materials I could post here perhaps if people want to do their own research.
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 5:12 pm 
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I think it's the Legio Metallica which was reduced to a demi-legio after the first assault on Armageddon by Ghazghkull (2nd War of Armageddon).

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Soren
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 8:41 pm 
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I can live with any organisation. In E:A you are limited in choice anyway. I`m pretty sure you will not field 3 Warlords as a battleline. You are outmaneuverd, outgunned and outactivated. Maybe you do some damage, but you will not win games. So there will be some useful combinations of titans which will sure include Wolfhounds just to get some activations.- :;): Even if it is "unfluffy"

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Titan Legion Organisation
PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2007 9:55 pm 
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I have always taken the demi and quatro as absract concepts as to the strength the legio has sent.

If it has sent a large chunk of the legion then it is called a legio deployment.

If it has sent a fair proportion of it's strength then it is a demi legio deployment

If it has only sent a few revaers and warhounds then it is a quatro deployment

and if it has only sent 4 warhounds and a cardboard cut out of a reaver (as in the Taros campaign) then it is a

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