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Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:30 am 
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ridiculous

Calm down Hena.

An army which can garrison only 1 formation, and most of it has to get within 30cm to attack you with any force, and which will lose heavily in firefights what with the Demolisher being downgraded to FF4+...

Your fighters have to stay on CAP to protect your very vulnerable artillery, and only one of your two artillery formations can hit the enemy's deployment zone on turn 1.

IMHO the only thing possibly broken there is the ability to take a Tank Platoon, which is already under consideration.




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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:42 am 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 01 2007,15:05)
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I went back on myself on this, unless heavy flamers / flamers in general get ignore cover on their FF attacks, I won't be adopting it in my variant lists. If a Hellhound can't ignore cover in a Firefight (And I don't know why it can't TBH!), then I can't really justify it.

Funnily enough in the published stuff so far they do both. The defilier gets FF stuff, the hellhound just gets a higher FF value.

Personally after extensive use of sappers who can't assault bunkers for cheese I really think those heavy flamers should be Ignore Cover FF weapons.

Thunderer
So what are the demolisher gun stats now?


MW4+

There was a vote and everything.

No ignore cover? Seriously?

Want to include a Demolisher variant. Dead simple body swap with a regular russ, so Heavy bolters instead of plasma (so becomes Mars varient?).

Would you say that the sponsons are roughly equivilent in worth?

Would a free swap on any tank hull be acceptable, or overpowered?

No sadly. Heavy bolters are equivalent to FF ignore cover heavy flamers. But Plasma blows them away. If you want a vicious anti armour russ go for those every time. If you were worried about the executioner though give the bugger plasma. Conversely if you want a vanquisher for no extra points consider no sponson or downgraded heavy flamers.

On a general FW tank note I'm all for some coming with the option of Heavy Bolter instead of lascannon, considering it is easy enough to make compared to repairing all the snapped lascannon!


Hena - thats a lot of MW. Who is up for marine armour verses them? :)

Sodding demolisher change :)

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:44 am 
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Russes have 70cm attack range on double


When they'll be hitting on 6's as they're shooting into cover, and exposed to Engagements as they've just driven all the way up the board.

I'd love to see this list tested, in case it is 'ridiculous'.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:47 am 
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No ignore cover? Seriously?


Nah, there was a big fluff debate, with 40k rules mixed in, where it was decided that:

- Hellhounds can cover the AP3+ ignore cover (Make them more attractive indirectly).

- Demolisher cannons are in the same or higher power bracket as Multi-Meltas in the 40k rules under most conditions.


EDIT:

A lot of it came from a desire to uprate the Baneblade and Vindicators. Demolishers ended up slightly overpowered, so lost a pip of FF.

It's all in the handbook, right?




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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:51 pm 
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Apparently they still have ignore cover, making them from being infantry hunters to tank hunters.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:55 pm 
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How so? It's rare that AV are in cover because cover is most of the time only found in dangerous terrain.
MW alone makes them AV-hunters. IgnoreCover makes them Infantry-hunters.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:56 pm 
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Apparently so, though I could've sworn that ignore cover was dropped... oops! :D

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 12:58 pm 
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I'm toying with the idea to give the Medusa Siege Gun Disrupt in addition to the MW4+ Ignore Cover shot to differentiate it more form the Demolisher.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:07 pm 
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Hena, if I am following you correctly you are saying that the Armored Regiment list can legally field all those Bombards (and other units) and thusly have 26 MW shots per turn?

If so, then the list is very broken.

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Dave
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:28 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Nov. 01 2007,05:05)
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Although the idea has a decent ammount of merit, it was generally unpopular last time it was raised.

Guys?

I'm not sure that with giving it AA6+ then we might see the death of the Hydra, as Ionheads used to eclipse Skyrays in the Tau list.

On the sponsons/+5cm

I still say not in a tournament list, maybe in an appendix for friendly games.  I think its too much customization when you take into account how many Russ this list can field.

On the AA6+ for the Exterminator

Again, I vote no.  I wouldn't think the traverse rate would be there to track an aircraft.  And I'd rather see a dedicated FF Russ on the list.  I like the stats as they are now.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:32 pm 
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(Moscovian @ Nov. 01 2007,14:07)
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Hena, if I am following you correctly you are saying that the Armored Regiment list can legally field all those Bombards (and other units) and thusly have 26 MW shots per turn?

If so, then the list is very broken.

It's been broken by the change to Demolishers. (I assume that's what you mean by Bombards?) :)

It would be easy to mark Demolishers and Thunderers to *rare* status, thus restricting them.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 3:56 pm 
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Yes, that is what I meant. Thanks!    Hena made a good catch here.  For the record I KNEW that the Demolisher change would be nothing but trouble.  

And I am just talking in general terms here, but just reading over this thread there is a lot of chatter about improving this to a MW or that to a disrupt or adding AA to whatever.  It seems like a lot of 'creep' going on up and down the list... Or is it my imagination?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Minervan Tank Regiment 1.6
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:23 pm 
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It is fine as long as the appropriate changes are made.  However it seems like there is 'list lag' going on where the cost and frequency of the demolishers hasn't been taken into account.  This is probably why it was made without a MW in the first place. :glare:
Hena, do you think the 'rare' status on the armored regiment list will cure the problem?

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