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Vultures
1) No change 29%  29%  [ 15 ]
2) Range reduction (90 cms) and AT reduction (AT3+) 23%  23%  [ 12 ]
3) Range reduction (60 cms) 29%  29%  [ 15 ]
4) Range reduction (60 cms) and AT reduction (AT3+) 17%  17%  [ 9 ]
5) Range reduction (45 cms) 2%  2%  [ 1 ]
6) Range reduction (45 cms) and AT reduction (AT3+) 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 52

Vultures
Chroma
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:02 pm 
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(Tiny-Tim @ Oct. 29 2007,16:56)
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I'm not sure why people worry about the deployment zone to deployment zone firing anyway as you can always garrison them and that will put them closer to the deployment zone anyway.

With a double move of 70cm, they can hit practically any place on the board at a 3+, even with the 90cm range reduction, starting in the deployment zone!

Garrisoning them makes them even more formidable!  *laugh*

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Oct 29, 2007 6:04 pm 
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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:27 pm 
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The other thing to consider is how easily their effectiveness can be reduced, you only have to shoot at them to suppress 1 and with an armour save of 5+ they don't usually last long.

This is one of the cases why some of us are uneasy about the proposed changes to the garrison rules.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 12:38 pm 
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(Tiny-Tim @ Oct. 30 2007,11:27)
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The other thing to consider is how easily their effectiveness can be reduced, you only have to shoot at them to suppress 1 and with an armour save of 5+ they don't usually last long.

Yes, but when your opponent fields four formations of them... you're not suppressing all of them!  *laugh*

And they have secondary weapons in addition to their missiles, so only the "alpha strike" is one shot.

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 1:36 pm 
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Very true, but 1200pts for 16 units is expensive and other options have to be passed on to take 4 formations

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 7:37 pm 
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I hadn't really considered the Vulture garrison, but that doesn't seem very effective to me.

If the Vultures garrison, then the enemy has the option to react.  They can deploy outside of the Vultures' range (at least non-garrison formations) and/or position so as to be in position to strike back.  Under 30cm from their own board edge and the Vultures don't restrict the enemy's deployment zone to any appreciable extent (assuming a drop to 90cm range).  Beyond that point they are within striking distance of most armies on the first activation.

What is the collective wisdom on this?  I don't play IG very frequently and my former IG opponent almost never used Vultures, so I don't have a feel for this.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:58 pm 
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No option for just 90cm? I would go with a step change. To date I have had no problems facing them as blowing one away is fairly easy as such things go and cripples the formation.

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Soren
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:24 pm 
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Range Reduction: 90? 60? but not more
AT-reduction: No


simple and easy

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Irondeath
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 2:08 pm 
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Re: Vulture garrisons

I find them quite scary: Artillery won?t work very well as Scout let?s them spread out. Decent AT is mostly on AVs, and if you move up such a formation guess what will happen to it?

Given good LOS, easy to achieve again thanks to spreading out via Scout, Vulture Garrisons shut down armoured movement nicely. APC are especially vulnerable, mech Inf isn?t going anywhere until the Overwatch is dealt with.

Air Strikes are an option, but this can be countered by placing them to the rear (120cms helps) near AA.

Teleporting doesn?t work that well, prepping the Vultures with a BM isn?t easy, they are skimmers and invariably have a Commissar to help when intermingled and to have that Fearless sole survivor grab objectives late in the game.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:30 am 
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Preferably 60, but understood if a 90cm 'softly softly' approach is desired... we can always look at moving it down again next time around if play experience still bears out that it is a problem (perhaps along with Deathstrikes... :;): ).

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Tooninki
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 3:23 pm 
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So whatabout these?! No change or what? i would have voted for Range 90cm AT 2+
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Lion in the Stars
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2008 9:01 pm 
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Marked mine for Range Reduction (60cm), no AT loss...  That's much more in line with other "air" vehicles, and doesn't completely nerf the unit... I think even a drop to AT3+ is pretty harsh for a ONE-SHOT attack.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:19 am 
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(Tooninki @ Feb. 25 2008,13:23)
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So whatabout these?! No change or what? i would have voted for Range 90cm AT 2+

That more moderate approach is what was included in the change documents in the end, and hence this poll is now out of date.  I'll lock the thread and this issue can perhaps be re-examined at some future date if that is thought necessary.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Vultures
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2008 8:20 am 
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Poll closed.

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