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psychic head variant...
Juffo-Wup
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:44 am 
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Psychic saves are allowed only against ETHEREAL Psychic attacks, not Physical Psychic attacks.  The differentiation is that a Physical Psychic attack is generated by a psychic source, but is a physical effect, like Weirdboys who use their psychic power to generate a type of laser beam from their psychic energy turning it into a physical attack that does not bypass normal defenses, hence no psychic save.  Mind Blast however is using psychic energy to destroy the mind directly, thus it is an ethereal attack that can bypass normal defenses, resulting in the only effective defence being a psychic save.

There are more Ethereal Psychic attacks than you think.  All shields give a psychic save.  This is to prevent Titans/Praetorians from being too vulnerable to cheap psychic units.  The rules for Shields giving a Psychic Save have been around since the days of Adeptus Titanicus and we've simply kept them.

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zap123
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 1:46 am 
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All three standard Warlock powers are Etherial and ones a Titan really wants to save against!  Go through the Chaos and Eldar books alone and you'll see plenty of Etherial powers that any shielded unit will appreciate the psychic save their shileds give:

Mind Blast, Psychic lock (ouch), Eldritch Storm, Doom, Coercion, Executioner, Plague Wind, Nurgle's Stench, Aura of Slaanesh, Terror Wave, Mind Warp,

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darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:57 am 
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(zap123 @ Oct. 10 2007,01:46)
QUOTE
All three standard Warlock powers are Etherial and ones a Titan really wants to save against! ?Go through the Chaos and Eldar books alone and you'll see plenty of Etherial powers that any shielded unit will appreciate the psychic save their shileds give:

Mind Blast, Psychic lock (ouch), Eldritch Storm, Doom, Coercion, Executioner, Plague Wind, Nurgle's Stench, Aura of Slaanesh, Terror Wave, Mind Warp,

ok and the vortex and warp missles are an exception in this case, right?

because both are ethereal psychic attacks but bypass shields without a psy shield save, right? but all models with a "inner" psy save, like warlock- or bio-titan can save this attack, right?
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:08 pm 
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(darkangel @ Oct. 08 2007,00:53)
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i can not remember that any one of us has used a psyker ability to attack a model with operational shields.

It happens to me all the time when I play my nephew and he fields an Eldar army.

I kind of like the idea of having a psychic head, perhaps to give non- PsyTitans some psychic powers. However, as others have already pointed out, Titans with operational void shields already have a psychic save.

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darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 6:25 pm 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Oct. 10 2007,18:08)
QUOTE

(darkangel @ Oct. 08 2007,00:53)
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i can not remember that any one of us has used a psyker ability to attack a model with operational shields.

It happens to me all the time when I play my nephew and he fields an Eldar army.

I kind of like the idea of having a psychic head, perhaps to give non- PsyTitans some psychic powers. However, as others have already pointed out, Titans with operational void shields already have a psychic save.

that is what i think too.

bio-titans, eldar-titans and chaos titans are protected against a warp or votex attack but all ork and imperial titans are helpless,because the shield does not protect them from harm.

a kind of "passive psy head" variant, which protects against warp and vortex missles seems not unimaginable to me!
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zap123
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 1:20 am 
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Why not just add a 5+ Psychic save as a second ability of the Custodian head?

Ork Gargants rarely give a rats about Warp missiles...."Ooooh, big Humie missile hit us.  Wat it do?  Oh, it started a fire."   It is however interesting that the Orks don't get any Psychic save now you point it out.

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darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2007 7:13 am 
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(zap123 @ Oct. 11 2007,01:20)
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Why not just add a 5+ Psychic save as a second ability of the Custodian head?

Ork Gargants rarely give a rats about Warp missiles...."Ooooh, big Humie missile hit us. ?Wat it do? ?Oh, it started a fire." ? It is however interesting that the Orks don't get any Psychic save now you point it out.

you are right zap...there is still a kind of psy head, why not modify him and we do not have to create a new one. we just have to add this fact to the notes and discription of the custodian head and thats it!

maybe we can discuss the value of the psy save and the new cost of the custodian head!

because the "greater" titans of tyranids or eldar have a 3+ save and the smaler 4+, i vote for a custodian head with 4+ psy save for the warlord class and a 5+ for the reaver class titan...suggestions?
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zap123
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 12:45 am 
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Remember only the Warlock gets a Psy save for the Eldar and it pays significantly for the priveledge.  If you gave the Custodian head a really good secondary ability you'd have to change the points.  I'd think the Custodian head would have to be priced at 100 points for a 3+ save, and maybe 75 for a 4+.....and then no one will buy it.  Of course, no one buys it now :D

I also don't think it would be appropriate for the Reaver, the only head variant they get is a basic weapon head.

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darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:00 am 
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(zap123 @ Oct. 12 2007,00:45)
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Remember only the Warlock gets a Psy save for the Eldar and it pays significantly for the priveledge. ?If you gave the Custodian head a really good secondary ability you'd have to change the points. ?I'd think the Custodian head would have to be priced at 100 points for a 3+ save, and maybe 75 for a 4+.....and then no one will buy it. ?Of course, no one buys it now :D

I also don't think it would be appropriate for the Reaver, the only head variant they get is a basic weapon head.

hey zap...i would buy him for 150 with a 2+ psy save! :D

just kidding...but hey...75 points for a 4+ save to go in competition with both, the warlock and bio-titan seems ok for me.

and then the custodian is nice option...and everyone all over the world do not move into battle without this mighty head! :cool:
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scream
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:07 am 
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I'm planning to build a warlord with a custodian head and devotion bell for some battles against my friend Chaos army :p (yes, I already have those 2 titan "weapons" ;) )




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darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:19 am 
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(scream @ Oct. 12 2007,08:07)
QUOTE
I'm planning to build a warlord with a custodian head and devotion bell for some battles against my friend Chaos army :p (yes, I already have those 2 titan "weapons" ;) )

i have them too.. :p

:blush:
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darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:26 am 
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(zap123 @ Oct. 12 2007,00:45)
QUOTE

but first, we should decide and commit if the custodian head should get an offical psy save!?

then we can discuss about either an additional psy save of 5+ with no extra charge or a 4+ save and rise the cost to 75.

what do you all think?
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scream
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:48 am 
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The psy save you want to add to the custodian will protect the titan from vortex/warp missiles ? Does the shield psy save will be unmodified ?

Could you clarify the modification ?

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darkangel
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 8:53 am 
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(scream @ Oct. 12 2007,08:48)
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The psy save you want to add to the custodian will protect the titan from vortex/warp missiles ? Does the shield psy save will be unmodified ?

Could you clarify the modification ?

actually i am a bit confused due to the different psy saves :confuse:

but the psy save from the custodian should be the same like the warlock and bio-titan has. and their psy save protects against vortex/warp missles and bypass shields withot a psy shield save, right?
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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: psychic head variant...
PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2007 2:27 pm 
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I'm still not sure why you think a Psy save would protect against warp and vortex missiles. They're physical attacks, not ethereal.

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