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[Discussion] Orks without Oddboyz
Chroma
 Post subject: [Discussion] Orks without Oddboyz
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:08 pm 
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So, I hadn't fielded my Orks in a while, so I thought I'd take them for a spin, especially with the changes Neal and Markconz have implemented in the Alpha Handbooks.

Especially, I wanted to check out the Blitz Brigade, but I thought I'd try something different: No Oddboyz.  In fact, my army would have no Soopaguns or Supa-Zzap-Guns at all!  I wanted to see how hordes of Big Gun armed units could do.

Now, I didn't get a chance to record batreps as these were various "just for fun" games, but I took a few notes.

The games were 3000 points, and I fought against Biel-Tan Eldar (latest changes), Lost and the Damned, Space Marines (latest changes), and Steel Legion.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Discussion] Orks without Oddboyz
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:10 pm 
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Here's the army I used.   I didn't get a chance to fully record my opponents' lists, but I'll see what I can do.

Orks without Oddboyz - 3000 points

Normal Warband 1
1 Warboss
1 Nobz
6 Boyz
2 Grotz
2 Nobz
5 Boyz
5 Grots

Normal Warband 2 - BTS
2 Nobz
6 Boyz
2 Grotz
4 Battlewagons
2 Gunfortresses

Big Mekboy Stompamob
6 Stompas

Big Kult of Speed
2 Skorchas
8 Buggies
6 Warbikes

'Uge Blitz Brigade 1
4 Death Koptas
8 Gunwagonz
2 Flak Wagonz

'Uge Blitz Brigade 2
2 Death Koptas
10 Gunwagonz
2 Flak Wagonz

Fighta-Bomma Sqwadron 1
3 Fighta-Bommerz
1 Fighta-Bommer

Fighta-Bomma Sqwadron 2
3 Fighta-Bommerz
1 Fighta-Bommer

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Soren
 Post subject: [Discussion] Orks without Oddboyz
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:16 pm 
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Like that list. It?s similar to one of the lists a friend of mine fields. He just uses more battle- and gunfortresses to transport his mobs (and as SM Player I lack the TK weapons to pick them out :;): )




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Chroma
 Post subject: [Discussion] Orks without Oddboyz
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:18 pm 
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To put it lightly, I got crushed.

Biel-Tan 3 (Blitz, BTS, T-n-H) vs Orks 1 (Blitz)
Lost and the Damned 4 (Blitz, BTS, T-n-H, TSNP) vs Orks 0 (none)
Steel Legion 3 (Blitz, BTS, T-n-H) vs Orks 1 (Blitz)
Space Marine 3 (Blitz, BTS, T-n-H) vs Orks 2 (Blitz, T-n-H)

I used to think massed Gunwagonz could do something... but they can't!  *laugh*  It's definitely the Oddboyz that make the formation worth taking, so I definitely stand corrected there.

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rpr
 Post subject: [Discussion] Orks without Oddboyz
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:40 pm 
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(Chroma @ Sep. 18 2007,21:18)
QUOTE

I used to think massed Gunwagonz could do something... but they can't!  *laugh*  It's definitely the Oddboyz that make the formation worth taking, so I definitely stand corrected there.

Well what can be expected - for a price of two gunwagons, you get in other lists something like RA 4+ and 2x 4+ attacks plus some extra.

And usually with better initiative.
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nealhunt
 Post subject: [Discussion] Orks without Oddboyz
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:31 pm 
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Normal Warband 1
1 Warboss
1 Nobz
6 Boyz
2 Grotz
2 Nobz
5 Boyz
5 Grots

For 5 more points, you could make this a Big Warband and add 2 boyz.  You'd have 1 less Grot unit, but you'd have a 3 more Boyz.  Grots are nice, but I'd still take that trade.

Normal Warband 2 - BTS
2 Nobz
6 Boyz
2 Grotz
4 Battlewagons
2 Gunfortresses
I don't quite get what you're doing with this one.  You have massive quantities of spare transport capacity.  Are you using the Gunforts to block LoS to the transports?  It seems like you could use 3 Gunforts, have plenty of spare transport capacity and more firepower for slightly fewer points.

Personally, I like to run a Fortress band with one Gunfort out front (with just 1-2 units loaded) and a Battlefort in back carrying most of the troops.  That would still be your BTS, but it would shave ~150 points.

'Uge Blitz Brigade 1
4 Death Koptas
8 Gunwagonz
2 Flak Wagonz

'Uge Blitz Brigade 2
2 Death Koptas
10 Gunwagonz
2 Flak Wagonz
Flakwagons and Koptas are both 30cm range.  I think I would put all the Koptas in one formation and probably most of the Flakwagons.  That would give you one formation with a more close-in focus and one with almost all longer range.  Maybe something like 6 Koptas, 3 Flakwagons, 6 Gunwagons in one and 12 Gunwagons, 1 Flakwagon in the other.

Fighta-Bomma Sqwadron 1
3 Fighta-Bommerz
1 Fighta-Bommer

Fighta-Bomma Sqwadron 2
3 Fighta-Bommerz
1 Fighta-Bommer
I would definitely split these 5/3 instead of 4/4.  A large FB formation can do a better job of braving flak, while smaller formations are still good for things like CAP, placing BMs, picking off fringe units and hunting broken formations.

I used to think massed Gunwagonz could do something... but they can't!

They're really just oversized Warbuggies.  Like buggies they are jack of all trades, master of none.  They are good for plugging holes, harassment, and snagging objectives but I have doubts that it's possible to make a force of predominantly Wagons work.

The closest I've come to doing it is with a Speed Freeks list that had Speedstas maxed out for the durability of the power fields.  In that context, they work pretty well for initiating assaults, especially in tandem with slower units, e.g. Warband doubles into FF range and shoots, then Wagons initiate assault from 50+cm away.

===

What was your intended strategy with this army?

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Tiny-Tim
 Post subject: [Discussion] Orks without Oddboyz
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 12:12 pm 
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In a way I agree with Neil on this. How where you trying to fight with this army?

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Discussion] Orks without Oddboyz
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:21 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Sep. 18 2007,21:31)
QUOTE
For 5 more points, you could make this a Big Warband and add 2 boyz. ?You'd have 1 less Grot unit, but you'd have a 3 more Boyz. ?Grots are nice, but I'd still take that trade.

I totally missed that... *laugh*  I was fiddling with other things... and I even had 5 points to spare.  *laugh*

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Discussion] Orks without Oddboyz
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 3:30 pm 
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(Tiny-Tim @ Sep. 19 2007,12:12)
QUOTE
In a way I agree with Neil on this. How where you trying to fight with this army?

Well, my list design was based on the idea of not taking any Oddboyz or Soopa/Supa-Zzap gun armed units, and spending the points I'd normally spend on those bits of kit on getting more units.

So, the 100 points I'd spend on Oddboyz for the Blitz Brigades let me bump them up to 'Uge size.  I usually include the Deth Koptas as "bullet catchers" against long range AT shots as their 4+ armour makes them hard to crack.  The two BB formations were to be used to zoom up, lay Blast markers and support.

The foot-slogger Warband and Big Stompamob were for garrisoning/overwatching Objectives and then sweeping into the enemy.

The over-mechanized Warband and the Big KoS were the hammers to the Blitz Bridage anvils and the F-Bs were for CAP or harrassment.

This army is similar to ones I often field, but the lack of Soopagunz meant that doubling generally gave me AT6+/AP7+ to hit where the MW barrages would be hitting (with no saves!) on AT5+/AP6+ on normal targets... that was a *huge* difference in effectiveness.

And as an aside: Tzeentch Flamers are *insanely* good.

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Soren
 Post subject: [Discussion] Orks without Oddboyz
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2007 6:45 pm 
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(Chroma @ Sep. 19 2007,15:30)
QUOTE
[quote="Tiny-Tim,Sep. 19 2007,12:12"]
And as an aside: Tzeentch Flamers are *insanely* good.

All daemons are damned good :) at least in their field of operation.

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Discussion] Orks without Oddboyz
PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2007 9:50 am 
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(rpr @ Sep. 18 2007,18:40)
QUOTE

(Chroma @ Sep. 18 2007,21:18)
QUOTE

I used to think massed Gunwagonz could do something... but they can't!  *laugh*  It's definitely the Oddboyz that make the formation worth taking, so I definitely stand corrected there.

Well what can be expected - for a price of two gunwagons, you get in other lists something like RA 4+ and 2x 4+ attacks plus some extra.

And usually with better initiative.

I have for a while wondered whether they should be 4+ armour.

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