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[Harlequins] Updated Harlequin Grand Masque List
Moscovian
 Post subject: [Harlequins] Updated Harlequin Grand Masque List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:12 pm 
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For the few freaks like me who love the idea of the Harlequins in Epic (but found previous Harlequin lists overpowered) I have updated the list.

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Link to all Wiki War Army Lists

Much more streamlined and much less gross.  :p Stats on the Raiders and Stage are more in line with the Dark Eldar stats.  Special rule for daethedi is removed and replaced with a simple armor value.  Allies rule is updated.

Comments and criticisms are welcome.

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Harlequins] Updated Harlequin Grand Masque List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 3:51 pm 
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That looks like a complete army rather than a WE replacement version... are you serious??? :D

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Moscovian
 Post subject: [Harlequins] Updated Harlequin Grand Masque List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 4:04 pm 
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I never claimed sanity.  :)  Yes I am serious.  It's been around for awhile but I hadn't updated the list since June of last year.  I was inspired by Sotec's work but there were some issues with it.  The assault modifier is unwieldy, the units are too powerful, and it places the Harlequins in the background.  IMO the Harlequins are the ones pulling the strings and the ones looking for allies to accomplish their goals.  Ergo, the Grand Masque was born.

The previous version was very powerful - this one should be much more delicate, but I have been known to be wrong in the past...  Let me know!

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: [Harlequins] Updated Harlequin Grand Masque List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 5:12 pm 
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Looks very nice.

I haven't had a good look at the list itself, but I have issue with the names of weapons - they are far, far too generic, which does a disservice to the otherwise nice datafaxes, and others use new things where existing weapons would do just fine.

Change "Harlequin Weapons" to "Harlequin's Kiss"
Change "Death Dealer Rifle" to "Shrieker Cannon". I would change this to a more anti-infantry weapon with Disrupt.
Get rid of "Warlocks". The Harlequins have Shadow Seers.
Get rid of "Psychic Attack". Veil of Tears is enough.
The Solitaire could just be armed with "Power Blades". No need for anything more complicated.
Jetbikes shouldn't have "Shuriken Weapons". Personally, I would just give them Shrieker Cannons too.
The Venom needs some kind of actual weapon. Shuriken Catapults (small arms)?

I like the idea of the Great Stage (was thinking something similar for the Emperor's Children, funnily enough), but I really don't think Harlequins should have War Engines.

Is there any evidence at all for an Avatar of the Laughing God? If not, I would stay away from that and leave Avatars for the Craftworlders.

Sorry this seems overly negative - it's a great little document and a big improvement over the previous incarnation. Most of my criticisms are purely cosmetic! Good stuff!
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Moscovian
 Post subject: [Harlequins] Updated Harlequin Grand Masque List
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2007 7:26 pm 
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LI,

Anyone who can't take criticism shouldn't make army lists.  :D   I don't mind your comments and agree with many of them.
Change "Harlequin Weapons" to "Harlequin's Kiss"
Change "Death Dealer Rifle" to "Shrieker Cannon". I would change this to a more anti-infantry weapon with Disrupt.
Get rid of "Warlocks". The Harlequins have Shadow Seers.
Get rid of "Psychic Attack". Veil of Tears is enough.
The Solitaire could just be armed with "Power Blades". No need for anything more complicated.
Agreed on all points.  I'll make the appropriate changes.
Jetbikes shouldn't have "Shuriken Weapons". Personally, I would just give them Shrieker Cannons too.Not sure I want to give them a ranged weapon.  Death Jesters seem to be the exception to the norm in terms of ranged attacks.  Although I do think the jetbikes need revisiting.  I may give them a CC that is close to/identical to the regular Harlequins and then just give them a simple FF value.
The Venom needs some kind of actual weapon. Shuriken Catapults (small arms)?
Well, I had the Malice as a separate unit that would match what you are talking about.  Looking back I may just eliminate that unit entirely and give the Malice stats to the Venoms (with a point increase of course).
I like the idea of the Great Stage (was thinking something similar for the Emperor's Children, funnily enough), but I really don't think Harlequins should have War Engines.
Is there any evidence at all for an Avatar of the Laughing God? If not, I would stay away from that and leave Avatars for the Craftworlders.


I understand your concern on these.  The original concept was to have the Great Stage be an immobile fortification that could appear from the Webway and perform much of what the Laughing God Avatar does now.  As time went on though I thought that there was room for a single WE that would bulk out the Harlequin list and provide a cover modifer.  I'm still convinced it has a place but I'm not married to it either.

The Avatar is still my favorite piece, however.  Unless somebody can show me in the fiction that there isn't an Avatar of the Laughing God, I'll hold onto this one bit of creative license.  The list isn't hitting the tournament scene anytime soon anyway  :;): so I think it can afford something fun for the Harlequin fans.

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: [Harlequins] Updated Harlequin Grand Masque List
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 4:46 pm 
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another zombie thread here, sorry again...

Anyone thinking of trying to include these guys into the Black Crusade book? I realize they weren't a supported army in the 40k event, but I think that was more due to the lack of models at the time than anything. It seems to me that the whole Ahriman seeking the Black Library subplot would have involved these guys quite heavily.

Logistically, it's probably best not to include them, but they would certainly be appropriate.
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Moscovian
 Post subject: [Harlequins] Updated Harlequin Grand Masque List
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 5:15 pm 
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I hadn't thought about it but we can certainly run it past Chroma - Black Crusade is most definitely his baby.  If so, I'll need to ramp up some playtesting with them since I haven't touched them in a really long time.  Ironically they are one of my few painted 'armies' and would be an easy mini-list to add.

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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: [Harlequins] Updated Harlequin Grand Masque List
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 7:43 pm 
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The solitare? (can't remember which one) is the avatar of the laughing god, at least according to 40k 1st ed army fluff text.

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semajnollissor
 Post subject: [Harlequins] Updated Harlequin Grand Masque List
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:09 pm 
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Hold up.

The solitaire plays the role of Slaanesh, and technically his soul belongs to Slaanesh unless the laughing god can trick Slaanesh out of it. The avatar (in the harlequin sense of the term) is also called the great harlequin and plays the role of the laughing god and also is the leader of the troupe. He is a person (eldar, whatever), not anything more.

There is no giant animated god-fragment of the laughing god, because the laughing god wasn't shattered into bits and pieces. The laughing god hid behind Khaine, and was able to escape into the webway when Khaine was defeated and shattered. The avatars used by the Craftworld are all fragments of Khaine, and therefore aren't really appropriate in an all Harlequin list if you want to stay in canon.

In 40k, harlequins have had access to jetbikes, vypers, venoms (transport vypers) wraithlords (questionable though), wraithguard (if wraithlords are okay, still questionable). I would model any WEs you give them off of dark eldar barges rather than EoVs, if they get WEs at all (again, questionable).
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Moscovian
 Post subject: [Harlequins] Updated Harlequin Grand Masque List
PostPosted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:44 pm 
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The list needs work (see comments from months ago). :)  You won't get an argument out of me on that.  I actually read about the avatar fragments information after writing this list (I can't remember when... Years ago?).

I really do want to re-vamp the list and the Stage is on my chopping block.  Wraith-anythings don't seem to fit the style regardless of the strange 40K conversions, so there shouldn't be any worries over them making it on.

The 'avatar' is really the only thing I want to keep in some capacity.  It need not be an avatar like the Laughing God but could be a possession, an appearance, a whatever.  There really isn't much written on Cegorach (heck, I don't think he had an official name until recently) but there are some things we do know:
1. He exists still in the 40K universe.
2. He can appear physically.  This is how he messed with the C'tan.

If those two conditions are met, I think there is room for him appearing in some fashion.

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Moscovian
 Post subject: [Harlequins] Updated Harlequin Grand Masque List
PostPosted: Mon Mar 02, 2009 6:26 pm 
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2.0 is coming out in about three minutes.

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