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[BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:16 am 
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Turn 3

Strategy Roll: Orks

The Warband rushes forward to engage Kasrkin Beta and the intermingled Elite Kasrkin.  It's ugly? for the Orks; they do manage to take out 2 Chimeras, 1 Valkyrie, and 1 Storm Trooper, but only 2 Nobz and 2 Boyz survive to fall back and tell the tale of the Warboss's glorious death?

Vulture Squadron 1 doubles to the Ork Blitz and pops-up to eliminate Blitz Brigade 2.

The Fighta-Bommerz try to come down and take out the Deathstrike Missile Launchers guarding the Cadian Blitz? but they completely miss? *sigh*

Kasrkin Alpha marches up the hill to take Cadian Objective 1.

The Elite Kasrkin engage the broken Kult of Speed, wiping it out with no casualties.

Kasrkin Beta doubles towards Ork Objective 1 and fires on the Warband, taking out 1 Nob.

Vulture Squadron 3 double to fire on Stompamob 2, and another Stompa krew abandons kan? but one still stands.

The recently rallied Karskin HQ takes the rare "gloat" action and lights a cigar?

End of Turn:

No Ork formations rally.

Score:

Cadians 4 (Blitz, DTF, T-n-H, TSNP) vs Orks 0 (none)

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 2:21 am 
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Well, the Orks got smoked! *laugh* ?Haven't gotten beaten that bad in a while! ?Four models left on the board...

Though I don't really think it was the "Cadians" that did it, per se, but, WOW!, Vultures! ?We haven't seen them used much around here, and certainly not en masse, but they are just insane! ?120cm, 8 x AT2+, for the formation? ?Man, it just seems nuts.

The Cadian player is now thinking of just doing a "normal" Steel Legion army so he can take the cheaper Infanty Companies and then fill the rest with mainly Vulture Squadrons.

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Markconz
 Post subject: [BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 4:04 am 
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Yeah like I said at the start - poor orkses! :D

The few times I've seen Vultures used the general opinion has been similar...

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:26 pm 
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(Hena @ Aug. 31 2007,06:50)
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I would have used the first activations of Orks to eliminate the two unactivated Vultures.

With them being popped up and on overwatch, with a 120m range, anything "effective" I could've moved towards them would've gotten hammered... I felt like I was facing some kind of elite *ELDAR* unit!  *laugh*

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Mephiston
 Post subject: [BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:35 pm 
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So the revised skimmer rules didn't help you much then? I think the general consensus was that this would help balance vultures some what.
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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:43 pm 
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(Mephiston @ Aug. 31 2007,12:35)
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So the revised skimmer rules didn't help you much then? I think the general consensus was that this would help balance vultures some what.

It certainly helped some!  I was able to screen certain formations with scenery and it was specifically why I didn't want to "approach" the popped-up ones as "I can see you, you can see me" would apply.

It's the 120cm range, and their speed, and the attack being 2+... they can use a double to reposition up to 70cm and still hit tanks on a 3+!   Marines *wish* they had equipment that good!

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rpr
 Post subject: [BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 12:44 pm 
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There is some changes that I'd love to see in my and other IG armies:
I would change Vultures. And Deathstrikes (basically no-brainer choice with current cost).
Manticores are obviously better than Basilisks thanks to suppression rules - and then they have disrupt...

I would also state that garrison unit in overwatch cannot start popped-up - I has always felt that grassion is like "waiting in trenches for the enemy", not "hovering in sky, waiting for them", but that is just me =]
(it can also thought as advance troops encountering enemy first and then setting up for them)
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Mephiston
 Post subject: [BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:00 pm 
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Only have one formation myself so never tired this. Mine always get hit early and if I'm facing them I try and break them before they activate.

Still not sure what would balance them better but would lean towards a range reduction for the first pass.
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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:04 pm 
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(rpr @ Aug. 31 2007,12:44)
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And Deathstrikes (basically no-brainer choice with current cost).

Well, changing Deathstrikes to indirect fire instead of "No LOS required" tones them down a *little*.
Manticores are obviously better than Basilisks thanks to suppression rules - and then they have disrupt...

Not sure what you're referring to with "thanks to suppression rules", but we've started seeing Basilisks as "assault guns" and using them for direct AP4+/AT4+ fire instead of for barrages; it's still in the early stage, but they seem interesting!
I would also state that garrison unit in overwatch cannot start popped-up
Well, the "Overwatch on Garrison" is described as "going on overwatch in the previous action phase" and that "action" would normally allow one to go on overwatch and pop-up, so we allow it.  My opponent could've just garrisoned them more forward instead of popping-up and it would've had, essentially, the same effect.

Perhaps we should start (another) thread on Vultures and such... *laugh*
test

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:09 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Aug. 30 2007,15:14)
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free MW small arms attacks (sanctioned psykers).

Considering you can only put them on Commander units, unless you've got lots of Companies, you're not going to be able to make use of many Sanction Psykers.

I'm probably going to change it to d6-1 Sanction Psykers since they wouldn't always be available.

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Irondeath
 Post subject: [BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:35 pm 
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I definitely hate Vultures. That 120cm range ist badly over the top, revised skimmer rules or not.

Whenever I read that bit on IG and Orks being the most balanced armies out there I think of Vultures, Deathstrikes and Zzaps and think, "yeah, right".

Especially the Vulture/Deathstrike Combo was insanely effective against Warlord-class WEs under the standard rules.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [BatRep] Cadian 'Shock Troops' vs Orks!
PostPosted: Fri Aug 31, 2007 1:43 pm 
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(Hena @ Aug. 31 2007,12:52)
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Even if first one would have be fighta bommas? Not much they can do to them. And for second. Well I could the gunzmob fired at one of them?

Well, if the Fighta-Bommerz had proved as reliable as they did against the Elite Kasrkin... it would've been 1 Blast marker... *laugh*

With the Big Gunz nestled in the swamp, doubling to get anywhere would've been at least one dangerous terrain test and possibly two... and with the enemy Supreme Commander in their sights, it was hard to pass up that shot as well.

I'd never really faced Vultures before, so I didn't realize how freaking nasty they are!  *laugh*

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