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[Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
Chroma
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 6:22 pm 
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Here's my take on an update for Iyanden. ?This list is assumed to be using the Eldar 1.8 changes.

Added:

Autarch as Supreme Commander (those Seers are too busy guiding the dead to be watching over everything! ?*laugh* ?Makes for a good "Returning Prince" formation as well!)

Changed:

Spirit Seer gets leader and CCMW attack, points for Spirit Host increased.

Removed:

Nothing... I think.

Please take a look and comment viciously!

EDIT - Updated to v3.1, found below

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Markconz
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:55 pm 
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Revenants 600, Phantoms 700.

Swords Shields issue as for other threads...

Not sure about these changes until played but they look reasonable.

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Mon Aug 20, 2007 11:32 pm 
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I disagree strongly... Arrianna is a major leader of Iyanden and she's a spirit seer. Also it feels right that your Supreme commander is in a Wraithguard Formation.. You don't have Aspects as a Core formation they are a support, so why have an Autarch as a Supreme Commander. Yriel is one character, he is not going to control every Epic army, and for those that want to convert up a Yriel why not just convert the model and use as a Wraith Seer.

MC23 always was of the opinion that the Spirit Seer should be a long range version of a Farseer. With the Wraithguard formation being longer range this make sense.. why give them a close combat MW as well it just makes them better all round than Farseers, it doesn't feel right.

as for leader, whatever...

I personally want 1.8 to sort itself out, before altering Iyanden. though I've never agreed with not being able to add Wraithguard and Wraithlords to guardian formations. They are meant to be protectors of the living.

This is the current version of Iyanden from MC23 last suggestions.. I don't think your suggestions improve it much. In some ways they take away from the feel of the army.

Iyanden list




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Chroma
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:20 am 
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(mageboltrat @ Aug. 20 2007,23:32)
QUOTE
MC23 always was of the opinion that the Spirit Seer should be a long range version of a Farseer. With the Wraithguard formation being longer range this make sense.. why give them a close combat MW as well it just makes them better all round than Farseers, it doesn't feel right.

Well, they can't summon Avatars...   :D

As to the Singing Spear, well, it *is* a Witchblade that hits as hard at range as in close combat, so I don't see why it wouldn't have both CC and FF effects.

Sorry that you think that, essentially, two changes take away the flavour of the list.  I thought phalanxes of walking dead were still the hallmark of the list.

Arrianna is just a single character as well, and I was sorry to see she didn't make it into the new Eldar Codex.  Is there other flavour text to support that Iyanden's forces are led by Spirit Seers?  In general, in typical GW revisionism, it seems that Autarchs are the "war leaders" of most Craftworld armies.

I appreciate your comments and concerns and hope we can find consensus instead of conflict...

Now hurry up ERC!  *laugh*

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:30 am 
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I might have been a bit harsh... but I really like the Wraith Seer unit.. it just feels right. I don't like the idea that the Supreme Commander is a Autarch in a supporting Aspect Troupe. I would have less problem with it taking command of a Guardian or Spirithost. but even then I just like the Wraith Seer, it feels right to me.

Do you think it's necessary that Spirit Seers have leader as well as a multi role CC/FF weapon. Spirit Seers are more of less just Warlocks. I've played with the current version and I don't like the idea of more or less giving a formation that is already extremely tough for Eldar more staying power.




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Chroma
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:41 am 
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(mageboltrat @ Aug. 21 2007,00:30)
QUOTE
Do you think it's necessary that Spirit Seers have leader as well as a multi role CC/FF weapon. Spirit Seers are more of less just Warlocks. I've played with the current version and I don't like the idea of more or less giving a formation that is already extremely tough for Eldar more staying power.

I like the Wraith Seer too!  (I like the word "wraith" as well...  *laugh*)  I wish you could upgrade a Farseer in 40k to that station.

Is see the leader as representative of their increased ability to direct Wraith units.  They're already only a 2+ init formation; with a Spirit Seer leading them, they should return to "form" pretty quickly... once the Spirit Seer is dead, they'll be slow to rally.

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:45 am 
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I had originally suggested adding the rule to the list.

Any formation of Wraithguard is Initiative 1+ while it has a Spirit/Wraith seer attached

but I never got any feed back on it. but it does give the feel of spirit sight in 40k. When there is no Spirit Seer near they have a chance of not activating. When they have a Spirit Seer they activate normally.




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Chroma
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:54 am 
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(mageboltrat @ Aug. 21 2007,00:45)
QUOTE
I had originally suggested adding the rule to the list.

Any formation of Wraithguard is Initiative 1+ while it has a Spirit/Wraith seer attached

Perhaps something along the line of:

Spirit Warrior Warhost: 2+ Init

"A Spirit Seer adds +1 to the Initiative Rolls of the unit it is attached to".

That way the Iyanden player has to remember the special rule, not the opponent; similar to the Chaos "Factions" rule.

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 12:58 am 
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Yeah that's the correct way to word it. We could try it out. Are you set on both CC and FF on their weapons, if so how would you point the unit 325?

What's your opinion on the Guardian formation. I've always wanted to be able to put Spirit Warriors into it, I never understood why MC23 took out the option.

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:08 am 
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(mageboltrat @ Aug. 21 2007,00:58)
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Yeah that's the correct way to word it. We could try it out. Are you set on both CC and FF on their weapons, if so how would you point the unit 325?

I'm not necessarily "set" on there being both CC/FF on the Spiritseer, but, at least, it acts as a slight counter to people basing the Wraithguard to get rid of their MWFF! ?*laugh*

Have you played much with the 3+ non-RA Wraithguard, mageboltrat? ?I find they re-die a lot quicker these days. ?*sigh*

I would point the formation around 325-350... definitely 350 if the 1+ Init is used... such a reliable MW assault formation is a powerful thing.

What's your opinion on the Guardian formation. I've always wanted to be able to put Spirit Warriors into it, I never understood why MC23 took out the option.
I do believe that Spirit Warriors should be available to the Guardian Warhosts, and I believe I included that... ?the more undead the better, I say! ?Especially with "The Living Few" rule, you won't see a lot of them, but it is a good option.

Here's a question for you, totally brain-storming, though I'm sure it's been discussed:

Wraithlord Formation anyone?

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:17 am 
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Hmm.... yeah 350 is probably right with the 1+ initiative, I'm not entirely set against the CC MW adding 50 points to the unit is a hugh boost in points so I'm willing to put it in for the moment and if they are too hard remove it.

Yep your guardians do have the option for Wraithguard / Wraithlord.. I'm not arguing with you on that one.

There is a Wraithlord Formation... 6 of them for 350.. or are you asking how they do?

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:20 am 
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Oh you have missed the Wraithlord Formation in your PDF. lol

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Chroma
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:40 am 
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After discussion and discovery of errors, here's an update! ?*laugh*

Updated to version 3.1.

Added

Put in option for "Wraith Seer" supreme commander.

Changed

Added "Spiritseers give +1 init to Spirit Warrior formations they are part of" to Spirit Seers.

Fixed

Put Wraithlord formation back in.

EDIT - Updated file in first post!

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 1:45 am 
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The PDF don't work.

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mageboltrat
 Post subject: [Iyanden] Army List Update Proposal
PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2007 2:11 am 
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This does not count as an Exarch in the Aspect Warrior formations.


What's this meant to mean.. that you can have an Exarch and an Autarch in a 4 unit formation. or thet you don't pay twice or what?

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