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Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
1. MW4+ Ignore cover 48%  48%  [ 13 ]
2. AP3+/AT4+, Small Arms +1EA Ignore cover 22%  22%  [ 6 ]
3. Something else (state below) 30%  30%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 27

Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
Markconz
 Post subject: Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:52 pm 
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Demolisher Cannons are one of the most frequently complained about weapons in Epic Armageddon. They are widely seen as significantly under performing in relation to their background, 40k counterparts, and Epic Armageddon points value.

Currently they are AP3+/AT4+ Ignore Cover.

What stats should Demolisher Cannons have if the same changes are to be applied to Vindicators, Leman Russ Demolishers, and Baneblades (in addition to any other tweaks that those units may require)?

Some discussion here (and in many other places...):
http://www.tacticalwargames.net/cgi-bin....;t=7708

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:54 pm 
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I voted for option 1, with the caveat that Leman Russ Demolishers would probably need a points nudge.

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Dave
 Post subject: Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:40 pm 
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If it were given a MW4+ wouldn't a small arms EA(+1) MW follow?

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Moscovian
 Post subject: Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:37 pm 
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For the record I am against making yet another MW out there (option 2 sounds fine to me).

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:43 pm 
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I voted for Macro Weapon (why shouldn't the single most powerful gun in 40K be a macroweapon?), and I think it will significantly alter the role of demolishers and vindicators in the game.

Note that although I voted for Option 1, I really don't think it should have Ignore Cover (MWs already ignore cover saves anyway) - it is not and has never been a flamer-type weapon. Plus a MW with Ignore Cover is obscene. Lose the Ignore Cover from the proposal, please!
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 5:45 pm 
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I'm too for MW but without Ignore Cover.

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Blarg D Impaler
 Post subject: Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 7:02 pm 
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The opinion below is superceded by my new opinion that the speed of the Vindicator should be increased to 30cm to match the other Rhino hull based vehicles.

My old opinion:
Do nothing.  The LRuss Demolisher is OK, the Baneblade needs upgrading but not in the Demolisher Cannon department, and the Vindicator is fine for the points - it needs different tactics than the rest of the Space Marines.




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Soren
 Post subject: Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
PostPosted: Tue Jul 24, 2007 8:12 pm 
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No new macro weapon.

Ignore cover of a weapon should only transfer it to the FF value if ALL weapons are ignore cover. Else I see no justification to do this (and I think it?s not intended to do it)

my 0,02 cents

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Markconz
 Post subject: Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:20 am 
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Well I'm for MW. It fixes this lame duck of a weapon and will give people a reason to actually field these again. The marines could sure use it, and it won't hurt for the guard to have something MW besides Ogryn clubs (yeah that is where the true power lies - ogryn clubs rather than the most powerful cannon in 40k!)

One powerful shot makes far more sense than extra firefight attacks - that just isn't what this weapon is about. ?It is supposed to annihilate armour and fortifications. It blasts breaches in solid rock for marines to storm through, it doesn't just 'ignore cover' and clear buildings like a flamethrower - it smashes them to pieces with one ?powerful shell. In 40k it busts open heavy armour as easily as a multi-melta and is effective at twice the range, and it is almost twice as deadly to light armour.

Demolishers need a decent and appropriate boost and this does it IMO.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 12:28 am 
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the Vindicator is fine for the points


The Vindicator is terrible.

It is the single worst vehicle in the Marine armoury, which is already stocked with sub-par tanks.



I'm going to start testing Baneblades, Demolishers & Vindicators with the MW proposal.

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Red Pendrigh
 Post subject: Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:15 am 
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Well MW fits the capabilities of the cannon in the 40K scale, (Hit a squad of smurfs, they're dead on 2+, no save) however you only have a 1 in 3 chance of hiting so I'd make it MW5+.




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Markconz
 Post subject: Demolisher Cannons - What to do?
PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 11:47 am 
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(Red Pendrigh @ Jul. 25 2007,10:15)
QUOTE
Well MW fits the capabilities of the cannon in the 40K scale, (Hit a squad of smurfs, they're dead on 2+, no save) however you only have a 1 in 3 chance of hiting so I'd make it MW5+.

The second part of your statement is incorrect. The chance of hitting in 40k is ALWAYS much better than 1/3. Scatters of 1 or 2 inches will still be direct hits on almost all targets, and partials on others. Scatters of 3-4 inches will often still be direct rather than partial hits against large targets like landraiders or monoliths. When there are multiple targets it is almost impossible to miss.

In any case trying to directly translate game mechanics from 40k to epic is not the way to go, even if it is done accurately.

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