(loofnick @ Apr. 12 2007,15:55)

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Yes, they are a separate "race", a separate army list, as "Imperial Knights" (or "Titan Legion", which include Titan Legion and Adaptus Mechanicus (Tech guard) stuff). ? If you look on page 3 of the Adaptus Mechcanicus army list, it says the quantities and type of stuff you can use to make an army from that list, and how much from certain other army lists. ?The army cards section at the end of list separates out the Titan Legion, and Mechanicus stuff.

In other army lists you will get similar just after the Introduction; many will say you can take maybe 50% or 25% from any 'Standard List' which the Imperial Knights are one of. ?

Each is treated like a separate army on your side- only allowed support cards for companies of the same army.

The system is covered very well on p7&8 in the Core rules. ? ?It's fairly simple, but the potential varients are quite large, and it takes a little while to look up what each faction is allowed.

(loofnick @ Apr. 12 2007,19:41)

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not so much support as allied. ? maybe an army recently defected to Chaos. ?It's up to you if you think this should be a standard way to play your army, or just for when a friend plays his army on your side. ?Some mixtures (IG and Space Marine) are more natural, and maybe more acceptable on a regular basis.

Personally I think it should be more unusual. ?which is why I'm making an IG only army, instead of adding the Artillery Company to my Space Marine. ?But that's my choice, the game allows me any reasonable possible scenario. ?Very much an issue for house rules, to my mind. ?I certainly wouldn't let anyone regularly mix Orks and Imperial, but occasionally it is interesting. ?Also picking the one thing your main army lacks is just plain wrong ( IG Artillery). ?Other legal examples might be Space Marine only, but all Devestators and Terminators. ?Is an Eldar Army with no Guardians ok? ?Or just be Tempests and Aspect Warriors.

Yes you do get a lot of choice. ?The points system will balance out most games. ?But you'll have to house rule or self-limit for fluff purposes.

If you really want strict lists as standard, try Armageddon. ?But I bet you'll house rule to allow mixtures, to let you use other models you have, or let someone else use an army on your side so your 6 friends can all play in the same game with thier armies.

Anyway, show me a game without houserules

(gary_clark1946 @ Apr. 12 2007,22:25)

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Hey guys,

If you are playing with a group and do 3x3 just have each player use his own army and forget the restrictions.

The whole idea is having fun. The restrictions are to keep a player from having an army that is out of whack. If playing multiplayer with different armies... who cares. If each player has his army within its own restrictions... go for it and don't worry.

You make the scenario. You can manufacture a reason for the situation.

Gary

(zap123 @ Apr. 13 2007,00:30)

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On the "can anyone take Titan Legions" bit the answer is no. ?The Titan Legion list (the one with battle groups and Imperator) is a Codex list so can't be taken as an ally, only as your main force. ?So the rules actually already state that only a Titan Legion army can take a Titan Legion!!! ?The Knight list is a standard list so you could take them as allies, but their titans are all Special cards so you'd need to take a Company card first....so realistically you could only get a titan out of them in 5K +.

An Imp Guard army only has access to Warhounds and Reavers. ?The PDF get none. ?Space Marines get access to Warhounds, Reavers and Warlords. ?Sisters of Battle and Frateris get none. ?AMTL get them all as is expected.

Chaos under NE 5.0 is really about 6 different lists (4 powers, "Lost and the Damned, CSMs) and each have slightly different access to titans. ?LatD can take Warhounds and Reavers, CSM also get Warlords, and the 4 powers get their specific Titans + access to Warhounds and Reavers via the LatD. ?Current proposed Errata would also allow access to Warlords for the LatD too.

(loofnick @ Apr. 13 2007,00:41)

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Anyway, show me a game without houserules

(darkangel @ Apr. 13 2007,08:04)

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hi zap,

oh man, it seems to be very complicated

ok, lt s take in examples:

I entrance the battlefield as a mighty dark angel commander fighting against the rest of this chicken crowd ? let us suppose that we could built a 4.000 points army.

So as a codex army I have to take at least 75% (3.000 points, rest 1.000 points) of my own cards including at least one of my my 1st or 2nd and so on company cards. then I can take 25% (=1.000 points) of a standard army list, right? I take the imperial knights at least 50% (means 50% of 1.000 = 500 points). which allowes me to get access to the titan legion as a codex army, right? and for how many points? there are 500 points left. Could you explaine it to me by finishing this example or perhabs by creating a new or other example, which goes into this way...?

(zap123 @ Apr. 12 2007,01:29)

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I think you need to look at the list a bit more closely.  Chaos Marines don't have Thunderhawks.  The CSMs can only take Deamons as Allies.  The other major differentiator is the CSMs don't get Rhinos.  This makes them quite different to the loyalist marines.  They are no where near as mobile and importantly a Chaos Marine army can get a company with a maximum break of 10 and even that is by taking the massively expensive Terminator Company, while loyalists can double that with Tac/Assault/Battle/Dev companies.  Loyalists armies can soak up much higher casualties before giving up any points, while Chaos need to wade in and make sure they are killing lots early or they will lose.  

Also note, this isn't new.  CSMs were able to take any Space Marine support card back in the SM2/TL days.  I can still recall the whoops of delight from our Chaos players when they put that rule in the White Dwarf .