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ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
loofnick
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Fri Mar 30, 2007 5:30 pm 
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(primarch @ Mar. 30 2007,03:14)
QUOTE
Hi!

I'm kinda confused is the tunneler issue resolved?

What needs to be clarified/changed?

Primarch

Sorry, I didn't want to do more then suggest, as I'm still relatively new to NetEpic.  We should go back to SM rules as their don't appear to be any NetEpic ones.  Plus, routing like independent troops, so those IG troopers don't get too plucky:

Please change both Termite, and Mole description in Militaris and Squat lists:

Replace "They are Tunnelers and may initially appear anywhere on the board as per the Deep Strike rules.",
with "Termites/Moles follow the Tunneller rules"

Add to Militaris list only:

"Moles [or "the Termite section HQ"] have special communication equipment, allowing them to accept orders anywhere on the board from their Regimental HQ. They may also relay orders to the infantry they transport, so long as they are within 25cm.  The infantry are treated as a separate detachment for orders and unit coherency.
However, if the detachment fails a morale check, and is outside of the normal Chain of Command (ie. via Company HQ or Commissar etc) they are immediately routed."


Why accept this change?  Because I'm here, I said so, and no-one else seems to be argueing  :p   Which seems to be the method for rule adoption.  :D

ByTheWay.  Cheek and sarcasm comes as standard- nothin' bad meant  :;):
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zap123
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:47 am 
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(loofnick @ Mar. 30 2007,17:30)
QUOTE
Sorry, I didn't want to do more then suggest, as I'm still relatively new to NetEpic.  We should go back to SM rules as their don't appear to be any NetEpic ones.  Plus, routing like independent troops, so those IG troopers don't get too plucky:

Please change both Termite, and Mole description in Militaris and Squat lists:

Replace "They are Tunnelers and may initially appear anywhere on the board as per the Deep Strike rules.",
with "Termites/Moles follow the Tunneller rules"

Add to Militaris list only:

"Moles [or "the Termite section HQ"] have special communication equipment, allowing them to accept orders anywhere on the board from their Regimental HQ. They may also relay orders to the infantry they transport, so long as they are within 25cm.  The infantry are treated as a separate detachment for orders and unit coherency.
However, if the detachment fails a morale check, and is outside of the normal Chain of Command (ie. via Company HQ or Commissar etc) they are immediately routed."


Why accept this change?  Because I'm here, I said so, and no-one else seems to be argueing  :p   Which seems to be the method for rule adoption.  :D

ByTheWay.  Cheek and sarcasm comes as standard- nothin' bad meant  :;):

Yup, we should replace any reference to the Deep Strike rules with the Tunneller for any tunnelling units.

Don't agree to the suggestion for the Militaris list though.  Should be:

"Moles (and Termite section HQs) act as the section HQ for their detachment and must follow Chain of Command restrictions.  Command Termites have special communication equipment, allowing them to accept orders anywhere on the board from their Regimental HQ."  

i.e The Company should follow all the normal rules for an IG Company.  Further, the infantry should have to maintain coherency with their transport just like any other NetEpic unit.....both particularly so given this is the Imp. Guard with much tighter command and control restrictions than a normal army.  Upside is they no longer need "Independant" so wont route when broken.

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loofnick
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 1:14 pm 
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(zap123 @ Apr. 01 2007,04:47)
QUOTE
"Moles (and Termite section HQs) act as the section HQ for their detachment and must follow Chain of Command restrictions.  Command Termites have special communication equipment, allowing them to accept orders anywhere on the board from their Regimental HQ."

This is just the standard IG Chain of Command rules.  It does identify the Mole/Termite as section HQ, otherwise I don't see any reason to add this.  Or did you mean Section HQ Termites have special comm...?


(zap123 @ Apr. 01 2007,04:47)
QUOTE

i.e The Company should follow all the normal rules for an IG Company.

So are you saying Support Cards should have different rules?

My unhappiness with the present rule stems from my having only a single Termite platoon, which obviously can't be attached to a normal IG company and get behind enemy lines.  Sorry, if this seems more of a rule change suggestion then an errata issue, it just seems natural to me, as an old Space Marine player, to expect to have some independance for these units.
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zap123
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 4:22 pm 
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It's Imp Guard....expect no independance :).  

Can drop the first sentance, just thought it removed ambiguity.  Support cards should also follow all normal rules for an IG support card.

No idea about the designer intent, but adding Tunneller support to anything other than a Tunneller Company doesn't seem fluff-logical.

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loofnick
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Sun Apr 01, 2007 5:02 pm 
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Damn IG!!! :glare: I suppose you're right, my Termites do tend to get laughed at, on there own (which is half the reason I like them) :laugh:

I'll give in to your fluff-righteousness.  Probably best to add your 1st line just to stop people like me from expecting independance.  Not the 2nd line cos the command Termite is part of a Company HQ or Commisar anyway, so it confused me.


So, to sum-up yet again:

Please change both Termite, and Mole description in Militaris and Squat lists:

Replace "They are Tunnelers and may initially appear anywhere on the board as per the Deep Strike rules.",
with "Termites/Moles follow the Tunneller rules"

Add to Militaris list only:
"Moles (and Termite section HQs) act as the section HQ for their detachment and must follow Chain of Command restrictions."

Zap, please agree and let's move on.  Sorry if this all seemed unneccesary.
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zap123
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:45 am 
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All looks good.

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primarch
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 2:26 am 
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Hi!

IS there consensus on whats wanted?

Primarch

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loofnick
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2007 12:17 pm 
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(primarch @ Apr. 02 2007,02:26)
QUOTE
IS there consensus on whats wanted?

Primarch

Yes absolutely.   Agreed to changes as per my last post (which covers ALL that wants changing regards tunnellers).

It's only the opinion of us 2, but it's not really a change now- just a clarification.  Thanks for everyone's patience  :)
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primarch
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 3:25 am 
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Hi!

Sounds good.

Primarch

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zap123
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2007 5:29 am 
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Sorry, just noticed something else.  The Mechanised Platoons all allow you to take any Chimera variant for the same price.  Indeed, the Mechanised Assault and Tactical detachments    cost no more than an empty detachment of Chimedons, Chimerax or Chimerro (250).  The  250 points for the Mechanised seems fine if the troops are loaded in 100points of Chimeras (well, maybe slightly high), but getting the variants for free seems a bit too good to be true.  I do note when originally released the variants were only 150 for a detachment.  The Assault Co. card had a mix of any of the assault versions of the Chimera for 850 points.  These were all TechGuard (AMTL) only.  

What to do:

Plan A:  Drop them all from the Militaris list entirely :)
Plan B:  Drop the assault Chimera variant detachment costs down to 150 each.  Mechanised detachments stay where they are, Mechanised/Mechanised Assault Companies go up to 750/850 points respectively. (I think we'd already agreed to the last bit).
Plan C:  Leave costs alone, but make Mechanised detachments and companies Chimera only.  (with maybe an upgrade price to swap Chimeras for assault variants).

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primarch
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2007 2:56 am 
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(zap123 @ Apr. 03 2007,00:29)
QUOTE
Sorry, just noticed something else.  The Mechanised Platoons all allow you to take any Chimera variant for the same price.  Indeed, the Mechanised Assault and Tactical detachments    cost no more than an empty detachment of Chimedons, Chimerax or Chimerro (250).  The  250 points for the Mechanised seems fine if the troops are loaded in 100points of Chimeras (well, maybe slightly high), but getting the variants for free seems a bit too good to be true.  I do note when originally released the variants were only 150 for a detachment.  The Assault Co. card had a mix of any of the assault versions of the Chimera for 850 points.  These were all TechGuard (AMTL) only.  

What to do:

Plan A:  Drop them all from the Militaris list entirely :)
Plan B:  Drop the assault Chimera variant detachment costs down to 150 each.  Mechanised detachments stay where they are, Mechanised/Mechanised Assault Companies go up to 750/850 points respectively. (I think we'd already agreed to the last bit).
Plan C:  Leave costs alone, but make Mechanised detachments and companies Chimera only.  (with maybe an upgrade price to swap Chimeras for assault variants).

Hi!

Option "b" seems the most logical to me.

Primarch

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loofnick
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:45 am 
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I'm starting to think I could keep this thread going forever.   Here's another maybe issues/question:

Exceptions to the Chain of Command rule (p4) says, 'if the detachment fails a morale check..is routed' . In Core rules regards Independants (p.10) says  'if the detachment.. falls back.. is routed'.

Does anyone think there is a significant difference between them?  There might be some odd circumstance, where you check morale, but a fail doesn't cause you to Fall Back?

Should the rule be the same as core rules?  I'm guessing the Independant, Core rule, is based on the IG rule as they have the most generic and common Independant units.  In which case the Militaris, Exceptions to the Chain of Command rule is unnecessary and could be deleted.
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loofnick
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 12:21 pm 
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(zap123 @ Apr. 03 2007,05:29)
QUOTE
Plan B:  Drop the assault Chimera variant detachment costs down to 150 each.  Mechanised detachments stay where they are, Mechanised/Mechanised Assault Companies go up to 750/850 points respectively. (I think we'd already agreed to the last bit).

i agree, except the Chimera varients are listed as detachments of 5 not 3, and so were ok at 250.  Just a question of whether they should be in 3's.  5's let you transport even the largest IG detachment.
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zap123
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:56 am 
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Wow, I never picked up that they were detachments of 5.....how odd.  So 3 at 150 is all good.

I did mention in passing to OzT that the AMTL list actually handles Chimera/Chimera Assault perfectly and maybe we should just adopt that scheme for the IG list....sorry for coming up with an option D.

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primarch
 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 2:35 am 
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(zap123 @ Apr. 11 2007,19:56)
QUOTE
Wow, I never picked up that they were detachments of 5.....how odd.  So 3 at 150 is all good.

I did mention in passing to OzT that the AMTL list actually handles Chimera/Chimera Assault perfectly and maybe we should just adopt that scheme for the IG list....sorry for coming up with an option D.

Hi!

Not a bad idea. I'm not inclined either way, so do what you think is best as far as the chimera stuff.

I would say the fall back rules should be like the core one and omit the redundant statements.

Primarch

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