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Changes 7.1-h2
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Changes 7.1-h2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:01 pm 
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Reading that thread, Neal Hunt asked us to try and exploit the Infiltrating War Engine combination.

So I propose we go with 20cm, Infiltrate, and report any abuses that arrise.


Because if we think we have a problem... it makes the Necron Abbatoir completely obscene.

Thus, it needs to be tested, reported, and hopefully a note will be put in the rules review.




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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Changes 7.1-h2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:10 pm 
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I think 100 points for a 20cm, infiltrating, 2DC Trygon that costs 6 spawn points sounds fine!

I will try this out next time...

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Changes 7.1-h2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:53 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 16 2007,16:03)
QUOTE
Note that Necron Abattoir costs 750 points and there is only one. In that sense Trygon is completely different. But if you want to test 20cm + infiltrate, then do so. But use 100 point cost for it. And try to abuse it as I described earlier.

I will Sir! :D

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torgoch
 Post subject: Changes 7.1-h2
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2007 9:09 pm 
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Combined Carnifex
Type/ Speed/ Armor/ CC/ FF
AV/ 15cm/ 3+/ 4+/ 6+
Weapons/ Range/ Firepower/ Notes
Carnifex Venom Cannon/ 30cm/ AP6+ AT5+
" " " Claws/ (base contact)/ Assault Weapons/ Macroweapon
Notes: Walker, Fearless, Brood (3)


------------------

I think this was the profile I suggested.

My inital thoughts are that the CC is too high. 5+ MW would reflect the Carnifex's low WS and low no of attacks (compared to say a whole troop of marines). Plus 4+ might merit a point increase.

That said, I haven't played it at 4+ - this is just my feeling.
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Markconz
 Post subject: Changes 7.1-h2
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 2:44 am 
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(torgoch @ Feb. 16 2007,19:09)
QUOTE
Combined Carnifex
Type/ Speed/ Armor/ CC/ FF
AV/ 15cm/ 3+/ 4+/ 6+
Weapons/ Range/ Firepower/ Notes
Carnifex Venom Cannon/ 30cm/ AP6+ AT5+
" " " Claws/ (base contact)/ Assault Weapons/ Macroweapon
Notes: Walker, Fearless, Brood (3)


------------------

I think this was the profile I suggested.

My inital thoughts are that the CC is too high. 5+ MW would reflect the Carnifex's low WS and low no of attacks (compared to say a whole troop of marines). Plus 4+ might merit a point increase.

That said, I haven't played it at 4+ - this is just my feeling.

I think 4+ (or even 3+) is probably ok. I use 'combo' fexes in 40k (venom cannon and scything talons), and they are pretty deadly in CC against marines and everything else in my experience. Especially if they have miasma and WS upgrade. 4 attacks hitting on 3's  killing on 2's on the charge will usually beat any marines, and dice dreadnoughts. One hit will kill a marine character.

Also it is in character for carnifex's to be deadly in CC :)

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Markconz
 Post subject: Changes 7.1-h2
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 9:29 am 
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(Hena @ Feb. 17 2007,06:35)
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I'll think that torgochs' suggestion is a good one. As I don't want to raise the cost of the Carnifex and thus it should be balanced with current fexes.

? What do you mean balanced with current fexes?

In my view reducing carnis to one 5+ MW attack cannot be justified on any grounds. It goes against their entire history and background, not to mention the character of the actual epic models!

If anything I would ditch the venom cannon option altogether and just make them 'screamer killers' again. Epic nids have plenty of other shooting big bugs if they want that option.

The only reason we introduced the venom cannon option (ages ago now), was to try and duplicate 40k options (and in fact I think it was actually my idea IIRC :blush:), in light of possible resculpts of the epic tyranid range. As this is now very unlikely it would seem a bit pointless to make a set of stats that are totally inappropriate for the models that are available, but even more importantly totally against the flavour of the beast.

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ragnarok
 Post subject: Changes 7.1-h2
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 10:46 am 
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On the Trygon topic, why don't we make them an independant formation of 1 to 3. with a 20cm move and teleport?

They are designed to operate behind enemy lines without synaptic help (like all mopnterous and gigantic creatures they ignore instintive behaviour.

This way we can show their tunneling ability and high speed.  Without having to balance them against Heirodules, rather they become a heavier lictor option.

We could also allow the swarm to perchase a few stands of common brood creatures, to represent those that follow the Trygons down the tunnels.  The brood creatures will be a very one shot weapon.  Since at the end of the turn/assault they will more than likely go to ground.  But hey that is what brood creatures are for.

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Markconz
 Post subject: Changes 7.1-h2
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 12:22 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 17 2007,08:26)
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Well weapons names are the least of my worries. they are something that can be figured out after the stats are balanced. And that fex has 4+ MW instead of 5+. The balance means that it has to be worth that 35 points preferably.

-----
Screamer Killer Carnifex
Type/ Speed/ Armor/ CC/ FF
AV/ 15cm/ 3+/ 4+/ 6+
Weapons/ Range/ Firepower/ Notes
Carnifex Bio Plasma/ 30cm/ AP6+ AT5+
" " " Claws/ (base contact)/ Assault Weapons/ Macroweapon
Notes: Walker, Fearless, Brood (3)
-----

For the record I like those stats, and I would just call it:

Carnifex
Type/ Speed/ Armor/ CC/ FF
AV/ 15cm/ 3+/ 4+/ 6+
Weapons/ Range/ Firepower/ Notes
Venom Cannon/ 30cm/ AP6+ AT5+
" " " Claws/ (base contact)/ Assault Weapons/ Macroweapon
Notes: Walker, Fearless, Brood (3)
-----

My main concern is that it doesn't get reduced below 4+ MW CC (that would be just uncarnifexy :D).

Agreed that teleporting trygons are probably too good.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Changes 7.1-h2
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 3:23 pm 
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(Hena @ Feb. 17 2007,09:51)
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Teleporting WEs are not something I want to allow. That's just too good. It got removed from OGBM list as well.

Well, if you're going with OGBM inspiration, the Trygon tunneling could always be represented by a "planetfall" effect.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Changes 7.1-h2
PostPosted: Sat Feb 17, 2007 4:10 pm 
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(Chroma @ Feb. 17 2007,14:23)
QUOTE

(Hena @ Feb. 17 2007,09:51)
QUOTE
Teleporting WEs are not something I want to allow. That's just too good. It got removed from OGBM list as well.

Well, if you're going with OGBM inspiration, the Trygon tunneling could always be represented by a "planetfall" effect.

A worthy consideration.

Perhaps moving Trygons to independent and letting them truly 'tunnel' in some manner would properly differentiate them from the Scythed Hierodule.

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