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Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
Chroma
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 3:57 pm 
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(Lightbringer @ Jan. 25 2007,14:55)
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Okay then so its Raveners at CC3+ and 5+ Save @ 30 pts a pop.

This sounds fair to me.

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I believe it's still CC4+, and Save 5+ @ 30 points that we're talking about.

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:04 pm 
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Aha - then thats a double nerf as I have them down as CC3+ and 4+ save in 7.1.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 4:22 pm 
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(Lightbringer @ Jan. 25 2007,15:04)
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Aha - then thats a double nerf as I have them down as CC3+ and 4+ save in 7.1.

WOWOW!

That's a big mistake on my part then, I've been playing them CC4+ all this time!  With CC3+ and Save 4+ they are a complete no-brainer!

My apologies, CC3+ Save 5+ is totally fine with me.

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Hojyn
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:38 pm 
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(Hena @ Jan. 25 2007,13:29)
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PS. what was that line about Melrose Place ... something refering to missing army champs perhaps :D.

No, I was responding to somebody who was getting confused about which version of the list your modifications were based upon (he had missed the "AV+WE round two" thread).

I then went on comparing the 'nids list evolution to Melrose Place : miss an episode and you'll miss two violent deaths, a couple of adulterous relationships and the return of a hidden twin.  :p

Ahem... back on topic:

- Raveners at CC3+/armour 5+ for 30 points would be fine with me;
- Good point about the Lictors lacking FF and being very vulnerable to a "6cm firefight";

I'm not sure about the complications of the swarm management rules, might some trouble be creeping in in translation to French?  What do they find overly complicated?


Actually, it's more that people find it needlessly complicated, and I'm not too sure about it myself. What do we gain by having the possibility to move creatures from one swarm to another adjacent swarm? Is it really needed? Wouldn't we be better off without this rule?

As to the spawning rules, I think it's more a matter of perspective.  The swarms aren't "teleporting" dead bugs around, they're growing new ones out of local plants and animals, forcing one of their own to rapidly evolve into something new, gathering "gone to ground" Broods that are wandering around, or even having new creatures "dropped" to them in spores.  The "just appears" is mere a simplification of all those effects.

I know, I even said some words along those lines on the epic_fr forum.

But the fact remains that you can do a "pseudo-teleportation" by spawning troops that just died on one side of the table to a formation located on the opposite side. This seems "unfair" to some people. But I honestly don't know whether the Nids need it or not, or even if Nid players use this tactic a lot.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 7:57 pm 
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(Hojyn @ Jan. 25 2007,18:38)
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Actually, it's more that people find it needlessly complicated, and I'm not too sure about it myself. What do we gain by having the possibility to move creatures from one swarm to another adjacent swarm? Is it really needed? Wouldn't we be better off without this rule?

Actually, it comes quite in handy.

When an Attack swarm has been reduced to just its Hive Tyrant, there's no real way it's going to be able to spawn an adequate defense.  By moving another swarm near it, preferable with AVs/LVs, some of those can be shifted over to the lone Tyrant in the next turn.

It doesn't happen that often, but it's still cool.  I don't see what's so bad about it unless some one is really intermingling their swarms.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 11:39 pm 
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(Hojyn @ Jan. 25 2007,18:38)
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But the fact remains that you can do a "pseudo-teleportation" by spawning troops that just died on one side of the table to a formation located on the opposite side. This seems "unfair" to some people. But I honestly don't know whether the Nids need it or not, or even if Nid players use this tactic a lot.

But spawning isn't even close to garanteed.  If there are enemies nearby, there's a 1-in-3 chance of it failing and you can't really spawn a whole bunch of "good" creatures back, just lesser Broods if you roll high, or a few "heavy hitters".

I still think it's just mindset.  Playing against Nids is almost the opposite of playing against any other army... people just need to realize that.

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Pulsar
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:04 am 
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Sorry to just throw this out there but what do people think of  for spawning models being able to use their spawn points to regain mass points?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:56 am 
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(Pulsar @ Jan. 25 2007,23:04)
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Sorry to just throw this out there but what do people think of  for spawning models being able to use their spawn points to regain mass points?

A similar system to Titans and their Void Shields?

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Chroma
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:59 am 
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(Pulsar @ Jan. 25 2007,23:04)
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Sorry to just throw this out there but what do people think of ?for spawning models being able to use their spawn points to regain mass points?

I think the regeneration rules are fine as they are now.

The Dom just needs a little protection and, I think, invulnerable save will be enough.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 2:05 am 
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I'm happy to test her with the new WYSIWYG & Invulnerable Save stats for a while.

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Lightbringer
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:20 am 
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I'll also give her a run out with Hena's new WYSIWYG stats plus Invulnerable Save next weekend.

Can I just take a mo' to thank Mr Hena for kick-starting the bug list development again - I really like (nearly all of) the suggested changes.

Quick question - the Broodlord - is that 0-1 per army or 0-1 per genestealer swarm?

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Hojyn
 Post subject: Here's my suggestioHenas changes for 7.1 (v7.1-h1)
PostPosted: Fri Jan 26, 2007 10:58 am 
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@ Hena and Chroma:

Points taken. I understand now.

The truth is I'm commenting on this list while having played zero games with or against Tyranids (although that day will come soon!), so I'm mostly expressing my feelings or reporting other people's comments.  :blush:

My feeling was that the swarm rules and the "pseudo-teleportation" effect might be (respectively) confusing and too powerful, but I've been quite convinced by your explanations.

I'm really looking forward to finishing the first 3000 points of my Nid army and to playing my first game.
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