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Epic Supplements
Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:25 pm 
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I agree that two main lists that could do with this treatment are the ones that have models: the Tau (and kroot - is anyone working on a pure-kroot list?) and the Grey Knights.

E&C: I can't see any way at all of making a proper Daemonhunters that wouldn't require lots of datafaxes. It isn't sufficiently based on any one list to get away without putting in all the units it requires. On the other hand, what's the problem? So you have more than one "proper" armylist... I don't think making the "supplement" bigger would be a major issue.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 9:31 pm 
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It was just my impression that a lot of the Inquisitorial list is based on inducted units, which wouldn't need datafaxes present in the document (Like the siegemasters have many of their datafaxes held in the core rulebook).

Perhaps a full Daemonhunters/Grey Knights would need significantly more unique units.

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 10:06 pm 
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There aren't that many inducted units in the core list (stormtroopers, inquisitors, henchmen, etc all need their own datafaxes), but all the inducted/allied units of course don't need their own entries. But just the Inquisition and Grey Knight units are about 30 different types of units, including transports (which really ought to be in the list). But that isn't really an issue, as long as I can get the models sorted!
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Pulsar
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Mon Jan 22, 2007 11:12 pm 
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(Lord Inquisitor @ Jan. 22 2007,21:06)
QUOTE
There aren't that many inducted units in the core list (stormtroopers, inquisitors, henchmen, etc all need their own datafaxes), but all the inducted/allied units of course don't need their own entries. But just the Inquisition and Grey Knight units are about 30 different types of units, including transports (which really ought to be in the list). But that isn't really an issue, as long as I can get the models sorted!

in what time frame are you hoping to have first the daeomhunters list done?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:15 pm 
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I'd hope that 95% of the models in the Daemonhunters list could be made easily from GW/SG/FW pieces. That'd be one of the primary prerequisites for having a list in a 'Suppliment', or at least I'd like to think so.

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Yuber Okami
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:54 pm 
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Ehm, if you need help with this project, just tell me (did i tell you that i mailed GW asking them to translate Epic to spanish,or, if they wouldn't do it, to let ME do it??)

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 3:21 pm 
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As I've said repeatedly, I believe that with a concerted effort that a 6-month window could finish the rules review (with army reviews), the Swordwind review, have BL and L&D "official" and have 3-6 variant lists completed (mostly Craftworld and SM Chapter lists).

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 4:28 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Jan. 23 2007,14:21)
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As I've said repeatedly, I believe that with a concerted effort that a 6-month window could finish the rules review (with army reviews), the Swordwind review, have BL and L&D "official" and have 3-6 variant lists completed (mostly Craftworld and SM Chapter lists).

Perhaps this 'online suppliment' idea could help place the focus on which 3-6 variant lists should be concentrated on, in order to produce themed documents.

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orangesm
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:24 pm 
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Excellent point E&C.  If an 'online supplement' becomes the focus of the community then that product will get done faster.  At the moment for example the Imperial Guard sub forum has 3 variant list - all of them needing play testing and focused effort to make them official list.  Now if we as a community decided that we are going to make a "Black Crusade" supplement a lot of the work is already done since both the core list - Black Legion and one of the supplemental list - Chaos Cult are about to be official.  So then the play testing would need to focus on the last one or two list, for the time being Ulthwe and Imperial list (Krieg*, Cadian Armoured?, Black Templars?, Blood Angels**).

*E&C's brain child
?Based on the Armoured Regiment List
?I want to save them for "Hunter Cadre" - my name for the Tau expansion
**Would need to line it up with background if they were used.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 5:38 pm 
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I think at the moment the biggest stumbling block is actually SG itself.

AFAIK, SG consists of 2 employees - Andy and Jervis.  Neither has enough time to act as producer for any of the games because of other buisness requirements.  I think it's assinine and a completely lousy business model (see the other threads on GW's business processes...).

At this point I don't see any direction coming from SG and while I believe they are doing their best to be responsive to the community's desires, even just providing focus for 6 different lines is beyond their resources at the moment.

I think fan projects are great, but without some sort of official blessing from SG, the community is likely to remain just as fractious as it has been for the last 4 years with various pet projects heading off in multiple directions.

I would be willing to bet that with a couple thousand GBP of attorney/barrister time they could have a freelance contract drawn up for Producers for the SG lines, along with submission releases.  Then for a couple thousand GBP per year they could probably have a part-time producer, essentially a fan producer with a token pay check, for each game.  That would, imho, pretty much solve their lack of support for a fraction of the cost of hiring full time employees to do equivalent work.

All that said, I have no idea what the labor laws in England would allow so it might be more difficult than I'm making out...

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:33 pm 
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As usual, you raised some good points, Neal. I personally don't need it, but I agree that having GW's blessing would be most beneficial for the Epic community as a whole.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 6:47 pm 
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I think that perhaps if the non-studio members of the ERC were given a bit more authority, then things would run a little smoother... but I ain't in a position to ask for that. :)

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:07 pm 
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(nealhunt @ Jan. 23 2007,11:38)
QUOTE
I think fan projects are great, but without some sort of official blessing from SG, the community is likely to remain just as fractious as it has been for the last 4 years with various pet projects heading off in multiple directions.

I would have said that the ERC can step in here. If the ERC sorts out a "grand scheme" and timetable, the rest of us can move towards that.

I think, if it can actually be made to work, the idea of themed supplements designed to include (and finish) the fan lists is a pretty good one. Again, I'd still be interested in seeing the final Chaos lists before we head off anywhere here.

The other point I wanted to make is that even after a list has been "finished" it can be modified in the form of rules review.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Epic Supplements
PostPosted: Tue Jan 23, 2007 7:23 pm 
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I don't think SG need to be in the loop even that much. All that's needed is the (active) members of the ERC need to petition SG to get permission to work on 'Online Suppliments', with its own choice of armies / plot, on the condition that nothing produced would introduce new elements to / contradict with the existing background.

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