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Chaos titans
CAL001
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:07 pm 
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Cheers Neal

I think I might have a crack at corrupting the AMTL list to create a Chaos Titan Legion list. I might need some help with weapon names. I will drop a line or post a thread when the time comes.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 3:46 pm 
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Despite the name it can be made any faction.


Sure you can say it's blessed by Tzeentch, but for some reason it has the weapons of a Banelord configuration Titan and loves to run into CC to chop things up.

So as I said, all you get is counts-as, not a proper representation of your Titan.


Choosing titan weapon fits makes it very easy to min-max army selection by choosing titan weapons that specifically fill holes in the core army's abilities.

That's why independent weapons costings is a good idea, because it makes hole-filling with a TK Titan (for example) an expensive proposition. :)



EDIT:

The 3 other types of Warlords could always pick up 'collector's' or 'friendly' rules, if introducing imbalances into the main Black Legion list is the worry.




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nealhunt
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 4:16 pm 
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E&C:  I think you're missing the point.  It's not supposed to be a deity-specific list.  It's Undivided.  Being a particular faction is more like being a slightly different shade of Undivided.  It's nothing more than Black Legion's "flavor of the week."  It is not intended to be anything like full-on fanatical cult-style worship of that particular power.

Heck, it's not like the Banelord is all that Khornate anyway.  It's a pretty generic multi-use weapon kit and I'm sure there are people that would argue that a rack of long range missiles belongs on a Tzeentchian titan rather than a Khornate one.

But in any case, if that concept bothers you that much just house rule it but there's no reason to include variant titans for the GT list.

That's why independent weapons costings is a good idea, because it makes hole-filling with a TK Titan (for example) an expensive proposition. :)


Proper cost varies with context.  Not every army has the same needs, so not every army can use the same pricing.

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Lord Inquisitor
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:07 pm 
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E&C, I may be belabouring a point here, but there are variant titans in the Cult lists. BL has started on a Nurgle Titan, I'll have a look at it when I have a little time to go over the DG list (so, yeah, noted BL, in case you're feeling ignored!)

Each variant Titan is designed to be the same points as the Banelord. So, with your opponents consent they SHOULD be usable in the BL without screwing things up too much if you really want to. Just be aware that they are designed to complement the list they are designed for so certain combinations may be more powerful (the EC titan, for example, doesn't offer very long firepower which is a general weakness in the EC list - stick 'em in BL, I don't know if you can compensate for this with other units...) But for friendly games, and if you aren't trying to min-max to high heaven, I can't see it being a problem.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 6:47 pm 
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I was being overly vociferous, consider the point ceeded, I'm not going to be demanding immediate changes to the Black Legion list today. :)


Proper cost varies with context.  Not every army has the same needs, so not every army can use the same pricing.


This discussion does belong elsewhere, but I feel that's not true with multi-cost titans.

An army that finds a certain Titan type overcosted because it has cheap access to equivilient capabilities (Say IG Titan-Killing for example), will purchase another Titan configuration that is more appropriate for its army. Such a system should in theory be self-balancing, as long as the exploitative combinations are correctly considered and accounted for.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2006 8:27 pm 
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(Evil and Chaos @ Sep. 13 2006,18:47)
QUOTE
I was being overly vociferous, consider the point ceeded, I'm not going to be demanding immediate changes to the Black Legion list today. :)

It wouldn't bother me if you did.  There are certain aspects of it that still leave me a touch concerned.  I was just trying to explain the design philosophy behind it more than defend the actual list.

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Heretic
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 1:53 pm 
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(Chroma @ Sep. 12 2006,14:46)
QUOTE
From the Black Legion 3.7 list:

The other Ruinous Powers are also known to create twisted versions of the Banelord as well. The Nurgle Plaguelord, Slaanesh Painlord and Tzeentch Warplord Titans are malevolent cousins to the Banelord, all built for the same dark purpose.


You can dedicate your "Banelord" Titan to any of the Chaos Powers, they just all have, in the Black Legion armylist, the same starts regardless of their Mark.

Some of the variant Chaos Marine army lists in the works have "Warlord-class" Titans that carry weapons specific to their Patron.

As long as I can graft some tentacles and nurglings on my warlord I'm happy!  :)

Is the nurgle plague titan still under consideration? If so I'd love to submit some material for it, how do I go about doing that if its still possible?

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CAL001
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 10:46 pm 
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On the SG boards under Death Guard post, I think it is in the Epic Discussion area. You can post ideas there, and I think they guy leading the push actually asked for peoples ideas on the matter.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Thu Sep 14, 2006 11:38 pm 
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This is why i posted it there too :)
And the Festering Death Legion? Cool thing :)

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:01 pm 
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Had alook at Epich 40.000 Magazine Issue 7 again.
In it featured the new Chaos Warlord titan (which a few mistaked as a new Banelord).

I think the mould is still there and it could be cast again(even if it looks ugly as hell, yes it is).
So i think it was a mistake to inklude the Banelord Titan in the BlackLegion Armylist. The Banelor dis a specific Khorne aligned titan. The Chaos Warlord of E40k magazine issue 7 is not. So it woul dbe better to inklude this beast into the BlackLegion armylist as generic Warlord Class Titan and leave the Banelord for whatit is: A Khorne specific Warlord titan, better belonged to the WorldEater Armylist.

If i look at the picture of th4 Chaos Warlord it has: 2 carapace mounted TurboLaserDerstructors, 1 Chainsfist, 1 Quakecannon, a WeaponHead and a WeaponChaosTitanTail.

I can provide a scanned picture if you want.

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:13 pm 
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Including the Banelord was based on what Jervis said was available.  He could be wrong but I'd say that means the other is not available for one reason or another.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 8:02 pm 
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Yes i know, but wasn't this thing expected to be the new Banelord titan?

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Thu Sep 21, 2006 11:52 pm 
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Aye, I was under the impression that there had only been 1 MKIII Chaos Warlord sculpted.

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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:54 am 
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And if you look at th emodel, the armamend is nearly the same.
Boththe Beetleback Banelord and the Chaos Warolord from issue 7 have a WeaponHead, a WeaponTail, a Chainfistlike CCWeapon and a big one-barelled gun.

The only difference are the carapace weapons: The Banelord has a MissileRack and the Chaos Warlord has 2 TurboLaserDestructors.

And if i think back,that chaos will get only 3 new releases i bet it will be the Chaos Warlord, Chaos Dreandoughts and Chaos Bikes, because the moulds and models existed (but where never released) shortly before GW canceled Epic40.000.

Can someone confirm, that Jervis said, that the new Banelord will have the same weapons as the old Banelord?

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nealhunt
 Post subject: Chaos titans
PostPosted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:29 pm 
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And if i think back,that chaos will get only 3 new releases i bet it will be the Chaos Warlord, Chaos Dreandoughts and Chaos Bikes


That's "probably" and not guaranteed by a long shot.

Can someone confirm, that Jervis said, that the new Banelord will have the same weapons as the old Banelord?

It's been so long that I can't recall exactly how the exchange went.  I know PG was in relatively close contact with Jervis when he set up titan stats and there were multiple exchanges between PG, JJ, and Wraeththu regarding available minis.

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