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Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
Enderel
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:04 am 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Aug. 03 2006,17:29)
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(Enderel @ Aug. 03 2006,11:43)
QUOTE
Now I tend not to use Titan's that much but Kev loves the models, what can we do to make them a bit more long lived?? ?Tactics anyone? ?I've read Primarch's tacticus on them but it still doesn't stop them dying..

I've been tinkering with a revised damage table, based on d10 instead of d6. I've never really liked the fact that you could possibly kill a Titan so easily after stripping it of its void shields. Maybe this (and a call for Incoming! articles) will give me enough incentive to complete it. ?:p

EDIT: Thanks for the Bat Rep. ?:cool:

Umm D10's would be good, but with Kev's luck sometimes I don't think a D100 would be enough!  Expect to see the alternate rules soon then DS?  :D

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Enderel
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 8:08 am 
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(Ilushia @ Aug. 03 2006,20:18)
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I had been contemplating some kind of random part determining system (SOmething like a random dice-roll to find where you hit) unless you're attacking the thing in melee. Essentially it's very hard to pick out a specific body-part, even on something as large as a titan, at range. But you get up close and it's easy.

The other possibility I was thinking of was making Titans count TSMs as less then they actually are (Say make all TSMs against Titans be 1-2 points worse then they are. To a minimum of 0.) meaning that weapons like Volcano Cannons would still be capable of punching holes in titans, but lesser weapons like lascannons and battle cannons would usually just bounce harmlessly off the hull unless the person using them got extremely lucky.

But I don't have anything really resembling a complete set of rules for it (And I've got extremely little experience with NetEpic so I'm probably not the best person to ask about it!).

Umm not sure on the TSM side, you'd quickly make Titan's invulnerable against sides which don't have high save modifier weapons.

I could field an IG army of LR's, Artillery and Infantry and find I cannot damage a Titan even if it's the only thing on the board.

The heavy shielding option a while back (only weapons with a -2 TSM could drop shields) changed the Titan's  longevity massively but to the detriment of the rest of the battle.

Point value wise you would have to increase Titan's to reflect this new found toughness.

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Fri Aug 04, 2006 2:44 pm 
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(Enderel @ Aug. 04 2006,03:04)
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Expect to see the alternate rules soon then DS? ?:D

I hope so. Since somebody has expressed an interest, this will give me more incentive to work on them.  :)

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zap123
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 4:32 pm 
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You could rehash the old TL Titan Experience abilities, but make them points upgrades.  Love to give Dodge to my Phantoms again :)

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dafrca
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2006 9:36 pm 
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Thanks for the BatRep. :;):

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Magnus
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:12 pm 
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Just a quick warning against "invulnerable super-unit" syndrome here.
The vulnerability of titans (and of every single epic unit in general) has always been one of the main attractions of SM/Epic versus the silly Herohammer rules which could let a couple of high profile units rampage through a whole enemy army (anyone remembers WFB 4th edition? Ugh... :( ).

Titans are vulnerable to massed fire and you need to keep this into account. A few pointers:

A) don't let them get caught in a crossfire
B) keep support units nearby
C) (linked to B) when enemy units are firing on your titans, they are not firing on something else. So your enemy shoots at the titan... fine. Your elite close-combat infantry has just gained a free charge at the enemy...
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Ilushia
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:26 pm 
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I don't think they should be invulnerable... Just a little more random for being taken-down. Being able to specifically target body-parts of your choice seems really powerful to me, and as it stands I really don't see much reason why someone would ever point a titan-killing weapon like a volcano cannon or plasma blast gun anywhere but the head. I'd just like to add a bit of randomness to the style. Something like: Roll a 2d6 and consult the following chart for hit location

Warlord HIt Locatinos

2: Reactor
3: Left Arm
4: Left Carapace Weapon
5: Left Leg
6-8: Carapace
9: Right Leg
10: Right Carapace Weapon
11: Right Arm
12: Head

Keep the other rules basically the same, and count all hits against that 'area' as being against the same square. No need for a damage chart the way you have it in SM2. It means about 44% of the time you'll hit the carapace (Which is reasonable. The carapace makes up the vast majority of the titan's body). And it's still very possible to blow off weapons or destroy it instantly with a single blow. Just less likely.
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Enderel
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 1:46 pm 
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I tend to think small changes would be more sensible than large scale modifications.

The damage location template Ilushia suggests is interesting, but only linked with a number of damage points.  This would change NetEpic significantly though.

I think just re rolls would be best for a small scale change.  Either via Elite for individual models or purchased re rolls bought at the same time as the army.  (Same as Blood Bowl.)

HeroHammer was fun Magnus you have to admit that!  :D  Runesmiths with runic weapons, armour, shields and talismans!! Very cool, very expensive, very deadly..  :;):

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Magnus
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:26 pm 
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(Enderel @ Aug. 08 2006,14:46)
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HeroHammer was fun Magnus you have to admit that! ?:D ?Runesmiths with runic weapons, armour, shields and talismans!! Very cool, very expensive, very deadly.. ?:;):

Bleh! Not if you played Empire, no it wasn't ?:angry:

Unless of course you followed the cheese path fielding your main battle line (big central unit with two side detachment under the special imperial rule, whose name I now forget, which let you have the lateral detachments follow the morale of the central unit) in close proximity with the regenerating Theogonist war altar [accompanied by Black Gem of Gnar-wielding bodyguard to take care of those pesky greater daemons and/or pegasus-riding, sword-of-ice wielding, strength-potion quaffing bitch queens (AKA "The homing missiles")] flanked by flagellants detachments. And hey pronto..... immune-to-morale army.

God, it was really awful..... ?P/R/S at its worst :(
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Enderel
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 3:52 pm 
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(Magnus @ Aug. 08 2006,15:26)
QUOTE

(Enderel @ Aug. 08 2006,14:46)
QUOTE
HeroHammer was fun Magnus you have to admit that! ?:D ?Runesmiths with runic weapons, armour, shields and talismans!! Very cool, very expensive, very deadly.. ?:;):

Bleh! Not if you played Empire, no it wasn't ?:angry:

Unless of course you followed the cheese path fielding your main battle line (big central unit with two side detachment under the special imperial rule, whose name I now forget, which let you have the lateral detachments follow the morale of the central unit) in close proximity with the regenerating Theogonist war altar [accompanied by Black Gem of Gnar-wielding bodyguard to take care of those pesky greater daemons and/or pegasus-riding, sword-of-ice wielding, strength-potion quaffing bitch queens (AKA "The homing missiles")] flanked by flagellants detachments. And hey pronto..... immune-to-morale army.

God, it was really awful..... ?P/R/S at its worst :(

We got more hours of fun out of the designing of counter hero's than we probably did out of the battles themselves.  :D

Bit like the arms race, with each side ramping up the destructive power of their hero's each game...

In the end we use to fight battles with no magic weapons or very limited magic items.  Plus no wizards or magic phase.

I had Dwarf and High Elf armies so wonderful amount of characters whose destructive powers were significant.  :)

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Dwarf Supreme
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:14 pm 
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I'm a bad boy. I forgot all about working on this this weekend. I'll try to remember to find my notes tonight.

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Enderel
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Aug 08, 2006 4:32 pm 
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Don't worry DS, I only just managed to finish my Landing Craft rules last night, they are currently with Primarch for comment and editing!

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jb1
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:23 am 
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Maybe Titans need to have a D10 or even D20 system all their own. This would of course change the odds of an effective hit. Something like Volcano cannon would still use D6 but a lasgun type D20,and others D10. This could be intergrated into the game and still use the game as is.
Just some thoughts...




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Enderel
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 8:13 am 
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Dwarf Supreme has written up something just like that recently.  He's got a thread about it around here somewhere.  All damage tables are based on D10's.

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netepic
 Post subject: Battle Rep - Marine Vs Imperial Guard
PostPosted: Tue Sep 05, 2006 11:29 am 
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(Dwarf Supreme @ Aug. 03 2006,17:29)
QUOTE
I've been tinkering with a revised damage table, based on d10 instead of d6. I've never really liked the fact that you could possibly kill a Titan so easily after stripping it of its void shields. Maybe this (and a call for Incoming! articles) will give me enough incentive to complete it. ?:p

Dude! I'd love to see an Incoming! article for it ;)

incoming@netepic.org

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