Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... |
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nealhunt
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice...  Posted: Tue Jul 15, 2003 6:53 pm |
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dafrca
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 3:16 am |
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Neal,
Thanks for posting these. I have been on Jury duty this week and missed both. I like what Jervis is saying here. He is attempting to address some major issues in the WH40k game and head them off before they grow into real problems.
I wish him luck!
dafrca
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Wed Jul 16, 2003 2:11 pm |
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I like the reasoning here. However, I hope that things wont swing the other way too far... having a list for every small faction so that an Alaitoc force uses an Alaitoc list which is very specific and results in all Alaitoc armies being the same. Also, what about people who want to construct a vanilla force?
The idea of lots of list variants is cool, as it means that there is further choice and character in the army.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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dafrca
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:37 am |
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| Quote (CyberShadow @ 16 2003 July,06:11) | | I like the reasoning here. However, I hope that things wont swing the other way too far... having a list for every small faction so that an Alaitoc force uses an Alaitoc list which is very specific and results in all Alaitoc armies being the same. Also, what about people who want to construct a vanilla force? |
Neal,
I was thinking when I read the part about DBM that in that game system all of the armies built from a specific list are about the same. The choices and differences come from the fact there are 100's of lists.
So if Jervis can work this out and do so fast enough then; if dafrca wants to play a space marine army and does not want it to be the same as Neal?s he just uses a different list then Neal.
If (and this is a big if) there are, say, 8 different Eldar lists open to the player I do not have as big a problem with all the Alaitoc armies being close in style and make-up. If I want my Eldar to be different then I take a different list. But if there are only one or two then I need the list to be closer to the "vanilla" list format.
Of course my willingness to support this kind of thing is based on the speed of these lists being published. With DBM there are a couple of books with 100s of lists so with one book bought dafrca has a lot of choices from the start.
Of course there are a lot of "if" statements found in my opinion, so we will have to see if Jervis can pull it off ?
dafrca
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:41 am |
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I can't wait !!!
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MaksimSmelchak
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:46 am |
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We can only hope that it will work out. I'm not a huge fan of the DBA/DBM sytem, but we'll see.
Shalom,
Maksim-Smelchak.
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primarch
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:23 pm |
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Hi!
I don't like DBM/DBA either, they may have lots of lists, but I don't see much game difference in them. The point to variety, at least IMO, is that the armies will not only look different but PLAY differently as well.
Primarch.
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dafrca
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 2:50 pm |
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I believe the use of DBM was not to say the rules or play style would be even close to DBM. I think the idea was to show how the other GW games used the lists to bring out many new rules that all lists could use and thus a problem with Rules Creep and uber combos shows up on a regular basis. The "base" rules become a large and unmanageable mess.
From what I understood, Jervis was saying his goal was to limit the rules creep and unforseen power combos by limiting the list cross overs. If I take the powerful Jetbikes from Eldar list #1 I do not get to take the powerful ultra tank from Eldar list #5. My whole army comes from either list but not both.
This contrasts with 40k today where the list cross over is the norm and as each new unit/list/book comes out the new is mixed with the old and odd uber-power combos are found where the designers did not expect them.
Of course this is just my take on what Jervis was saying.
dafrca
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"Every Man is a But Spark in the Darkness"
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Thu Jul 17, 2003 3:30 pm |
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As I said in my "less than serious" remark ... "I can't wait !" , I'm interested in how this plays out. Although I'm very "old school" and thought that the SM1 & SM2 methods worked well, however, any game design has to be careful about being too detailed or not (!) ... so I'd like to see how they work this out, I think they are going to the "too much info" side. But I'll withhold judgement ... for now ... But I'm all for campaign, battle and unit data. 
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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dafrca
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2003 5:53 pm |
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Sat Jul 19, 2003 4:41 am |
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"Rule Creep" can be a bad thing ... some of the stuff I read on the E-A boards, comes close. But again we'll wait and see ... And trying to make E-A more like 40K (in some respects) is clearly a bad thing ... in my mind.
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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dafrca
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 8:19 am |
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Amen Brother L4
dafrca
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Tas
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 10:54 am |
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| Quote (Legion 4 @ 19 2003 July,13:41) | | "Rule Creep" can be a bad thing ... |
here here.
Just look at what happened in 2nd Ed. It was a consequence of background development sure, but to start from such a position can only be fatal.
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Legion 4
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 2:48 pm |
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By trying "to be all things to all people", the E-A experiment is far from over. The "bottom line" will be seen late fall/winter, of this year ... 
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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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primarch
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Post subject: Quantities of Blast Markers and Order Dice... Posted: Sun Jul 20, 2003 3:37 pm |
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Hi!
This is one point I have made constantly. GW/Jervis need to "define" what epic is to be and stick with it. They are NOT going to please everyone and it is folly to try.
You cant please everyone all the time, they should keep this in mind.
Primarch
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