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Results and Comments from Oakville
Eric.R.	Post subject: Results and Comments from Oakville Posted: Sun May 07, 2006 8:03 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Sep 26, 2005 1:34 pm Posts: 38 Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada	Having played the v7 list this past Saturday in Oakville a couple of comments were noted by player and oppents in regards to the v7 list. Garrisoning: ? ? Though still possible it only really means that you can garrison a Synapse Unit's (Hive Tyrants and Tyranid Warriors), Exocrine 'A's ?(with an appropriate Synapse Creature) or Lictors. ?Garisoning a Synapse only is asking to lose and there is no point garisoning a Lictor formation when they could teleport where ever they choose. ?Now, placing the Exocrin 'A's around mid table does sound like a nice idea having 45cm IF weapons though they are sitting ducks as your opponent will more than likely activate first and target that formation. ? ? Having lost the ability to garrison Termagants now requires that formations made of of Brood Creature to march for the first, and sometimes second, turn to come into effective range of the enemy. ?All the will being depleated by concentrated attacks and possibly losing a Synapse Creature before it can encounter an opposing formation. Spawning: ? ? Spawning at the end of the turn as two effects on the game: ?1) Clipping becomes extremely effective (especially against formations with common brood creature - 0 armour) 2) It is possible to return ALL formations to the table. ? ? Comments for 1) - Not being able to respond to attacks with the spawning of more troops can lead to easy loss of Synapse creatures and have the Tyranids running for cover -- a non-fluff tactic. ?This is most evident in Common Brood formations where there is little to no armour saves. ?More often than not the in turn spawning was a last ditch effort to stay alive and sometimes only prolonged the inevitable. ? ? Comments on 2) - Having every formation being able to activate AND respawn really got on peoples nerves (opponents and players alike). ?Being able to effectively return to full strength (minus units that will go to ground at the beginning of the turn) was a pain for opponents despite being able to clip the `Nids more effectively (All 3 opponents had played vs. the v6 lists previously). ?Though, having full strength at the beginning of each turn was nice for me. ?But, it is a lengthly process to Roll to see it it can spawn, roll spawning dice and then place units; it too long to be playable properly in tournaments where time is a factor. ?One thing that was relised was that having a Synapse node on the table is a good way to activate an ineffective unit and cause your opponent to respond to you not acting and hopfully make him run out of activations allowing the `Nids a series of activations. ? ? Another issue with the spawning was dealing with the D3 spawning . . . why D3? ?Having to explain to your opponent everytime how you are going to decern the die rolls was time wasting. ?Also, quicky reading D6's as D3's is tedious and slows down the game. ?Having compared the spawning costs from the V6 & v7, many in v7 are half of those in v6. ?So why not double all the costs and use D6's? ?The max/min values will be scaled appropriately (ie 2?) as will the average value. ?This will speed things up as not everyone is of quick mind after 10 hours of gaming. Regeneration ? ? After explaining the difference between how Bio-Titans and WE in other armies worked opponent's become comfortable with the idea. ?Not happy but confortable. ?Though why half-DC with success on a 5+? ?It is the same, mathematicaly, to DC with success on 6+. ?Though the exception to this is odd-value DC (ie Hierodule DC 3) which will roll 2 dice which leads to a 2/3 success rate as opposed to the previous 1/2 success rate. In all I am not a fan of the end turn Spawning, I can deal with the non-garrisoning Nodes but not being able to garrison any effectiveunit is pretty rough, and the mathematics of Regeneration and Spawning changes nothing but the time required to play the game. ?My 2 major suggestions would be return to v6 spawning as it does make sense fluff-wise since time has to be taken to locate and control new creatures, as it currently feels as if they just appear for no reason. ?And, return Termagants to 15cm move as to allow some garrison of troops. There is probably more I have to say but I can not recall them at the momment. ?And, those who I played will ?hopefully add to this.
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Jaldon

Post subject: Results and Comments from Oakville Posted: Mon May 08, 2006 6:24 am

Brood Brother Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 6:38 am Posts: 720 Location: Utah, pick a Pacific Island the other half of the year.

Garrisoning:    Though still possible it only really means that you can garrison a Synapse Unit's (Hive Tyrants and Tyranid Warriors), Exocrine 'A's  (with an appropriate Synapse Creature) or Lictors.  Garisoning a Synapse only is asking to lose and there is no point garisoning a Lictor formation when they could teleport where ever they choose.  Now, placing the Exocrin 'A's around mid table does sound like a nice idea having 45cm IF weapons though they are sitting ducks as your opponent will more than likely activate first and target that formation. Lictors can Garrison, Genestealers can Garrison, and Carnifexes can Garrison. One player in our local group just loves Carnies and fields at least 8-10 every battle, and yup they are garrisoned right up at mid-table. With 3+ Armor, and reasonable use of terrain, they are a scarey animal to try and tackle, much less ignore. Having lost the ability to garrison Termagants now requires that formations made of of Brood Creature to march for the first, and sometimes second, turn to come into effective range of the enemy.  All the will being depleated by concentrated attacks and possibly losing a Synapse Creature before it can encounter an opposing formation.

Yes, the old days of just standing up the bugs at mid table and throwing them at the enemy are gone. Not only was this tactic beyond what the Nodes were intended to be (See thread Norn Queen Report #2 for further info), it made for a pretty dull game. Your Swarms will be depleted by enemy fire IF you don't use terrain wisely, and IF you try to just shove your swarms forward. Also adding a couple of Raveners to soak up hits wouldn't hurt either.

Spawning at the end of the turn as two effects on the game:  1) Clipping becomes extremely effective (especially against formations with common brood creature - 0 armour)


Opponents, with some very strong validity, were complaining that after expending multiple activations that a swarm could just spawn itself back to full strength right on the spot making gettting at the synapse creatures, or even slowing down the swarm, near impossible. In short, it often tooke 3/4 of an opponents army's combat power to humble a single brood swarm. Want to solve the '0' armor problem then take some Raveners they are armor 4+.

2) It is possible to return ALL formations to the table.


I don't understand how it is possible to return all formations back to the table as only brood creatures can be spawned back, Independents, and Synapse Creatures cannot be spawned back. Thus if a swarm's synapse creatures all die, that swarm is out of the battle.

As for spawning back ALL losses suffered in a turn, the new spawning rule is, well, new. Very new in fact and we are still trying to find the happy medium were it WILL work. The Tyranids ARE a WIP so immediate effective results in a change this major is just not possible.

Comments for 1) - Not being able to respond to attacks with the spawning of more troops can lead to easy loss of Synapse creatures and have the Tyranids running for cover -- a non-fluff tactic.  This is most evident in Common Brood formations where there is little to no armour saves.  More often than not the in turn spawning was a last ditch effort to stay alive and sometimes only prolonged the inevitable.


I find it interesting that Tyranids using cover would be considered a non-fluff tactic, this would require that the Hive Mind be totally stupid, mindless, and reacting only on instinct, none of which fit the Hive Mind.

I repeat Raveners ARE brood creatures, ARE infantry, and DO have a 4+ armor save.

As for the last ditch effort to stay alive, this was not the results we were achieving in the least over playtesting from v1.0 to v6.0. It was more like one moment the swarm looked as if it was going to get wiped out and then POOF up popped a brand new full strength swarm. Hardly the endless stream of bugs, and more like a majician waving his majic wand and 'creating' new rabbits out of thin air.

Having every formation being able to activate AND respawn really got on peoples nerves (opponents and players alike).  Being able to effectively return to full strength (minus units that will go to ground at the beginning of the turn) was a pain for opponents despite being able to clip the `Nids more effectively (All 3 opponents had played vs. the v6 lists previously).  

As I already stated we are still fleshing out the rule to prevent this from happening. We are aware of it and keep tracking the results down. We are confident we will get there soon.

But, it is a lengthly process to Roll to see it it can spawn, roll spawning dice and then place units; it too long to be playable properly in tournaments where time is a factor.

This is no more of a lengthy process then Rallying IF you are used to the system. All the proposed rules I have introduced are playtested for a bit within my own group at home to see if it is too confusing or will cause undue delay in the game, before I post it. Thus far you are the first to complain about a time factor. Not ALL synapse have to spawn the Tyranid player is allowed to target what they spawn.

Also, considering most Tournaments are going to be 2,700 to 3,500 points that returns around five to nine synapse formations average. With most falling into the range of 2,700 to 3,000 it drops to five to seven average.

One thing that was relised was that having a Synapse node on the table is a good way to activate an ineffective unit and cause your opponent to respond to you not acting and hopfully make him run out of activations allowing the `Nids a series of activations.


This is no different then an IG player doing the same thing with a Walker Platoon, or an Ork player 'wasting' an activation on a shot up to death KOS holding his Blitz, or a host of others. In short ALL armies can, and do, do it so it is not an unfair ability.

Thanks All....................

Jaldon