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Elysian Drop Troop
Honda	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:49 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas	Space Assets = CAS and Space Vessels in support of the troops ? ?That's the way we play it ... ? ?And that's the way it was in the 101, 2ID and 197th Mech ... except we had Naval Gunfire Assets (Big Guns & missiles) and Strike Aircraft (CAS) ... not Spaceships What I mean by this is that I will put the Lunar cruiser and Emperor battleship (or whatever they are called in the Steel Legion list) back into the selection of formations for the army list. But that is all. I'm not going to add Orbit to ground landers or anythiing like that. The list is supposed be a representation of the Elysian TO&E (as close as I can get it without being ridiculous) as presented in Imperial Armor Volume Three. That was the stated objective from the very beginning and I will continue to use that as the "source" book for the list. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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Tactica	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:59 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	@Honda, LOL - point understood... (even though you might indirectly and unintentionally offend L4's 195th mech division - or something...) _________________ Rob
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Legion 4	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:02 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36989 Location: Ohio - USA	I understand ... you are going to keep within a/the campaign's OOB ... Then only those assets should be used in keeping with the "history" ... ?And don't worry "T" ... I'm not insulted by you sticking your tongue out a me ?! ?But I was in the 101 ABN Div, 2d Inf Div and the 197th Mech Bde ! ? ? ?Just for the record ...  Not that it matters ... but I know my way around Infantry and APCs and Lift Ships, and stuff, etc., etc., etc. ...       _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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The_Real_Chris	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Sat Mar 04, 2006 6:45 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm Posts: 8139 Location: London	And curiously enough considering how many posts went into that, they have to be the most underused options ont he steel legion list _________________ If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com! 'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913 "Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography." General Plumer, 191x
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Honda

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 2:17 am

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

And curiously enough considering how many posts went into that, they have to be the most underused options ont he steel legion list Well that was a major consideration in the original decision as well. I rarely ever see or hear of people taking space assets as they (excluding SM) don't see them as a good expenditure of points. However, the space assets will be back in so that others can not choose them as well.   _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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Legion 4	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Sun Mar 05, 2006 8:07 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36989 Location: Ohio - USA	Do what works for you, but we always use SM1 Off Board Support Rules (OBS), for our Orbital Assets (Spacecraft, OWPs, etc.) and CAS.  We play 1/3 of your TBL can be used on OBS and CAS ... couldn't imagine not taking some to support my troops ... _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Tactica	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 1:06 am
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	I have to admit, I just don't use the space assets in my IG list. Primarily because I get better firepower out of the list directly. Second, I don't have anythign I'm needing to planetfall. Now with Marines, chaos, Eldar, and Tau - that's a different story. I have stuff I either want to drop in or planetfall in with each of these. Also, the firepower these ships bring to the aid of some of these lists can also be handy. Steel Legion is a bit of an anomoly in that vien I guess. It does seem like the Elysians would have some kind of 'planetfaller' but there's no fluff to back it up. So to have a space ship in there for completeness as L4 stated - I'm OK with. Perhaps the Elysians may even want it for the orbital support as their list lacks weapons... now that actually makes the most sense. Steel Legion just don't need the orbital support. It probably makes less sense in the Steel legion list than it does in the Elysians now that I think about it LOL... go figure. So when we getting a new list Honda? _________________ Rob
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Legion 4	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 5:23 am
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 5:13 pm Posts: 36989 Location: Ohio - USA	Thanks, "T" ! ?But you don't have to take OBS/CAS in our system, you can take up to 1/3 of TBL. (A 3000 pt force could take 1000 points of OBS/CAS). ?Drop Troops like Elys (or the 101, 82d, etc. !) would certainly benefit from the additional firepower. ?A Hvy Barrage and/or Support Missiles + a flight or two of CAS (T-bolts, Marauders, Lightings, etc.) are usually SOP for us ... We don't have OBS/CAS on a army list ... It is just an option to all forces, with some exceptions (Orks, 'Nids - can't use Support Missiles but only Barrages). ?CAS is what models are available to the Army/Force. Like Orks could choose Fighta-Bommas and/or Bommas, Chaos - Helltalons and/or Hell Blades, etc. ... ?Just so you don't exceed 1/3 TBL. ?UNLESS ... a certain scenario says during the campaign/battle that OBS or CAS was not available ... So again do what works for you ... But I'm calling in OBS and CAS on the first turn ... ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? _________________ Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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Honda

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 2:41 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

So when we getting a new list Honda? I'd like to have my first cut for review by the end of this week...at least that is my goal. I have a game with the Elysians on Wednesday against SH Eldar, which will be the last game at v1.2. Something for you guys to think about... Hardened Vets: I'm going to included these as a 0-2 unit upgrade to an Elysian Drop Troop company for 40 pts each. They'd have the same stats as SM Scouts, but include Sniper. So, Scout, Sniper, and Infiltrate. I know that in 40K their roles are very different, but I'm looking to add an equivalent of Force Recon unit to the DT's. So somewhat hard hitting, specialized, and not their own gang of guys. Please feel free to think about it and tel me what you think...like I have to ask for that.   _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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Tactica	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2006 4:16 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Honda, It sounds like you have a vision for them. No problem. I previously recommended them to be their own stand alone as a contingent to the force as they are no different than the storm troopers in commonality so it looks like those could be used as a measure of frequency - i.e. contingency in an E:A list. I did recommend they be a smaller formation though, so they would become a bit more of a prized asset. To this IG fan, Hardened Vets would be much more common in an Elysian force than Snipers would be in a Steel Legion force. However, fluff aside, you have to do what works for you and the list to keep it in line with your vision and game balance. I look forward to testing whatever you put together when it makes its first documented appearence. Cheers, _________________ Rob
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Honda

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2006 6:57 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

I previously recommended them to be their own stand alone as a contingent to the force as they are no different than the storm troopers in commonality so it looks like those could be used as a measure of frequency - i.e. contingency in an E:A list. I know, I know... I took this approach for a couple of reasons: 1. If the HV's were their own contingent, then there isn't anything preventing someone from creating an all Hardened Vets drop list, which seemed wrong to me. 2. As I was conceptualizing the 40K list in Epic, it occurred to me that the HV's "could" be a support team used to strike hard while the rest of the drop troops followed up. If you think about the HV's in the 40K list, as you recommended, they are good troops for giving special weapons to, then using their Infiltrate ability to strike somewhere inconvenient. That's where I settled on their abilities for the time being. Still, your opinion has been logged and it will be revisited at a later date. _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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Cosmic Serpent	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:26 am
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Mar 07, 2006 2:56 am Posts: 137 Location: Chicago	Hey Guys, I'm a little bit late jumping into this conversation - but I couldn't miss the chance to talk drop troops in Epic.  After reading the ten pages of posts, I'm ready to add my thoughts. I originally created a drop troops list prior to IA3 coming out, when Epic first came out - and it looks like your list is shaping up similiar to what I thought. I really like the idea of keeping close to IA3 - as it provides a very good baseline for what to build and something to fall back on to justify and keep along the right path. I really like the recent idea of the HV's not being a unit of their own per se, but more of an add on to a drop troop contingent.   Some other things I personally like is keeping the orbital and aerospace options rather open.  I envision the drop troops relying heavily on aerial support - especially to take out the heavy armored/titan opponent.   One thing I would like to see if different versions of the Sentinel for the Elysians, as they make such huge use of them.  I personally would like to see a heavy bolter version to deal with AP stuff, a multi-melta version for the MW hitting power, and a support sentinel that offers a 1 BP marker as in the rules that's what the missle pods are designed to do (and how the rules treat them).  I feel fire support should be reflected in blast markers like arty and other support elements.   Just my initial thoughts, but had to get in on the conversation.
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Honda

Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:34 pm

Brood Brother Joined: Wed Aug 10, 2005 11:44 pm Posts: 1891 Location: Katy, Republic of Texas

First off Cosmic Serpent, welcome aboard to the wildest ride in town...(I was listening to Wagner's "Ride of the Valkyries" this morning) ?? ...and I appreciate your comments and look forward to any effort you may be willing to give to help get this thing across the goal line. One thing I would like to see if different versions of the Sentinel for the Elysians, as they make such huge use of them. ?I personally would like to see a heavy bolter version to deal with AP stuff, a multi-melta version for the MW hitting power, and a support sentinel that offers a 1 BP marker as in the rules that's what the missle pods are designed to do (and how the rules treat them). ?I feel fire support should be reflected in blast markers like arty and other support elements. ? It's funny that you should bring this up as I was wondering if people felt like their was a justification for 3-4 types of Sentinels. I don't mind putting the stats together and agree that a Hvy Bolter version would be quite handy. I am typing up Version 2 as we speak and look to have it available by......Monday (3/13). I have a battle tonight against Biel Tan Eldar. The Elysians will be a bit of a hybrid in that I'll be playing the Drop troop companies as is (i.e. v1.2), but adding 2 x Hardened Vets for each DTC. The Hardened Vets for this game will have the same stats as SM Scouts, except their armor save is +6 and they come with Scout, Infiltrate, and Sniper. My list is: 1 x Regimental HQ, 1 x SC, 8 x infantry, 5 x Valkyries 2 x Storm troopers, 8 x infantry, 4 x Valkyries 3 x Drop Troop companies, 1 x Command, 8 x infantry, 2 x Hardened Veterans 2 x Vulture squadrons, 4 x Vultures each We've agreed to no aircraft. The Biel Tan will be: -maybe Avatar for kicks -windrider host: 11 vipers, wildrider, farseer -windrider host: 11 vipers, wildrider, -windrider host: 5 vipers, wildrider -windrider host: 11 jetbikes, wildrider, farseer (noticing a trend) Troupes de jour: -3 troupes of guardians: 18 guardians and 9 waveserpents in toto -Falcon love machine with 2 firestorms -Fire Prism rontson lighter for long range ignition. -2 Cobra pre-processed boot leather providers for that hard to reach BP So, an interesting match up, to say the least. I will post a batrep so that we can talk about what happened. More later... _________________ Honda "Remember Taros? We do" - 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

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Tactica	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 10:35 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Cosmic Serpent, Welcome aboard! Interesting ideas on the sentinels. I think this list is going to function very different than many out there in E:A land. At this point in time, I see many activations, all very brittle, close range shooting and skimming are the key, elitist toys, massive teleport/planetfall, limited heavy weapons, limited armor saves, no heavy armor, no titans, no MBT, destructive capabilities in FF. Its turning out to be an interesting list. Kudos to Honda thus far. Honda, 3/13 - noted. _________________ Rob
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jfrazell	Post subject: Elysian Drop Troop Posted: Wed Mar 08, 2006 11:38 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Thu Jan 05, 2006 1:21 pm Posts: 144	I also would support the original list's reliance on air assets - particularly for flak purposes.  Else you have a great big hole ready to be filled by Ork Fighta Bombas.   If not aircraft, an air dropped version of a hydra or the Baran 88MM spoof? Teleports in, immobile, same cost as the actual item? _________________ "Advance to the Rear!"
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